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Dota 6.60 - Reconsidering Item Builds

Posted by The DS Prince on June 29th, 2009 | Visited 9034 times, 2 so far today

The versions 6.56 up to 6.60 have been phenomenal where change is concerned. By now you should have understood the significance of these changes, so I need not elaborate. What needs to be reconsidered in light of the changes, however, are item builds hitherto considered “cookie cutter” on certain heroes.

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Luna Moonfang

From 6.49 onwards, the only item build which was seriously considered by both pubs and leagues was the Butterfly + Satanic build. This was especially so after it was found that in 6.49, Luna could tank 5 heroes while killing about 3 (maybe even all 5) at the same time. This was due to the nature of Satanic giving lifeleech off the 2nd-to-5th bounceys at that time. Even though this was changed in 6.52 so that the extra bounceys did not count for lifesteal, it still remained popular despite the reality that begun to sank in.

This terribly expensive item build was a burden that made Luna hard to play especially in later versions which demanded cheap ownage. With the 6.60 changes, it is even more important to evaluate if Butterfly + Satanic is ever a practical item build on the Moon Rider. Can Luna just sit still and farm more than 10 000 gold just to own when devastation is all around her? Why is Satanic still on her when she doesn’t get that special lifesteal anymore? If lifesteal is needed, then a simple Mask of Death or even just Mask of Madness (yes read that right) should do. Unless Luna has achieved her peak and is able to farm the crucial 3300 fast, Butterfly is also a suspect.

Personally, in place of this item build I would rather take:

  1. Mask of Madness (1900)
  2. Manta Style (4850)
  3. Diffusal Blade (3300)

Which components are so much easier to farm. Purge can be more useful than you think, on a hero which just runs fast and does not have any other form of slow. Luna images also have bounceys making them potentially deadly, and MoM coupled with Black King Bar can allow quick bursts of DPS without too much backlash from the Berserk effect. You can call me armchair theorist if you want, but has anyone else including leaguers seriously considered alternatives to an item build which is so expensive it is not really practical anymore?

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Syllabear

Ever since the days of 6.37 the only item build ever recommended on the Lone Druid (or rather the Spirit Bear) is Radiance + Power Treads. Nothing else is ever given thought and it seems this is still the case 23 incarnations later on. I say, unless you can farm that 3800 fast (like in 10 minutes), you’re basically a liability - and a burden - to whoever are your friends. Ditch it.

Call me maverick, but I’d substitute Battle Fury in place of Radiance. Since the Spirit Bear need not fear that disabling spells like Cyclone or Icebite cast on it will last much longer than on heroes (check changelog), Battle Fury can be an alternative source of damage. Retain the treads (or I’d just put boots and gloves of haste in the bear’s inventory). Everything else is up to the imagination. But to suggest that the Lone Druid shall only get Radiance is tantamount to mental fascism IMO.

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Bristleback

Woefully neglected ever since 6.48b, the last item build that you would hear leaguers recommend was Radiance + Heart + Perseverance. The Bristleback has since seen some improvements but is still difficult to use especially because it doesn’t really have disables. I wouldn’t like to be presumptive and imply that the following works, but think:

  1. Vanguard
  2. Armlet of Mordiggan
  3. Mask of Madness
  4. Orchid Malevolence

All of which involve cheap components. I’m sure you see the pattern here - it’s not practical to say only the expensive item build works. Often cheap ones have to be considered in light of the evolving changes of 6.60.

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Rikimaru

Ever since satyrs became popular in 6.57b, so has the accompanying item build. I don’t know if I was the first to recognise the worth of Diffusal Blade on Riki, but I was certainly one of the first to have made the isolated discovery without ever referring to leaguers. Diffusal continues to be an excellent item on Riki especially now that it can be upgraded, and so add in Manta Style and you’ll have super-fast Rikis who can never let you go from their electrifying grasps. It’s definitely better than the Butterfly “rush” in which the hero once again becomes a liability until the crucial 3300.

The Diffusal + Manta combination is in fact an excellent pairup on many other agility heroes like Morphling, Naga Siren, Luna (as described above), Juggernaut, POTM, etc. Most important, it is affordable.

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Force Staff, Quelling Blade

Not exactly a hero, but it is definitely high time to seriously contemplate the role of Force Staff. Displacement pushes have a much more influential impact than many of us would like to think. Entire comboes can be constructed - or demolished - by the use of this item alone. Heroes hitherto neglected by leaguers can suddenly become powerful. I would not be surprised if leaguers would actually spam this as they spammed Phase Boots back in 6.57b.

As for Quelling Blade, I need not say what impact it has had on melee heroes.

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I hope the above will trigger some considerations from both pubs and leaguers alike. I was like “OMG I’m going gaga (not Lady Gaga)” after I heard that 6.61 Beta restored Aghanim’s 75-second cooldown on QoP, after I b**ched blogged about it. Of course I’m being boastful here, since I don’t know if it will really be carried into the official version. But perhaps the DS blog is quite influential after all. :P

11 Responses to “Dota 6.60 - Reconsidering Item Builds”

  1. KingV Says:

    Manta + diffusal on Jugg ^^
    Nice post Casp.

  2. ghost Says:

    good old Quelling, making it easier for a Melee hero to farm imba carry items. ^_^
    we all like our carry items.

  3. qwerty31 Says:

    Hmm yes you raise many vaild points…Especially about Force Staff, the push on it is quite more lethal than you think, and as for Quelling Blade luls, probobly revolutionized the use of Melee heroes all together. Meh i dont stick to typical builds, ima random guy so i get some pretty wacko builds, making it all the more fun =D.

  4. Rayn Says:

    MoM+diffusal on luna ?

  5. The DS Prince Says:

    @rayn

    Yeah. Anything’s the matter? ;)

  6. folechno Says:

    Force staff will be seeing play, because competitive play is about mobility which the staff gives

    I wouldn’t say that Diffusal on those heroes is a new thing, I’ve been doing it for quite a few versions

    as for BB I don’t think a Vanguard is needed, it helps a bit in tanking, but an Armlet does pretty much the same thing and gives other bonuses as well

    HotD vs MoM
    HotD is cheaper, provides + dmg as well as armor, the only thing MoM has going for it is +2% more lifesteal and + attack speed, none of the heroes you mentioned above will have high damage when you would buy MoM early in the game, it is better designed for those slow attacking melee heroes with superhigh base damage, also the Diffusal and other items you mention give the heroes the same amount of attack speed that a MoM would give, so imo on those heroes you mentioned a HotD is a better option

    your thoughts?

  7. Rayn Says:

    nvm i thut u dint notice the stacking factor but now i realise u get the diffusal for the slow and the add dmg, agi.

  8. Mentalcowman Says:

    i just saw a luna in a league game with p.treads/MoM/BKB/ manta, worked fantastically and totally dominated.

  9. The DS Prince Says:

    Ooo…really? Let’s see that replay, link ploz. ;)

    @folechno
    Well, I like to be more conservative and think Vanguard would suit pigs well. And I don’t like HotD simply for the fact it reminds me very much of Satanic :P

  10. reiva00 Says:

    “I hope the above will trigger some considerations from both pubs and leaguers alike. I was like “OMG I’m going gaga (not Lady Gaga)” after I heard that 6.61 Beta restored Aghanim’s 75-second cooldown on QoP, after I b**ched blogged about it. Of course I’m being boastful here, since I don’t know if it will really be carried into the official version. But perhaps the DS blog is quite influential after all. ”

    Hahaha… I knew you would react to the prince! The moment I read that, I was 100% u wud blog about it. NOW.. SAY SORRY TO THE TOAD! hahaha!

    Anyway, also regarding the force staff - watch this replay i posted: http://www.dotastrategy.com/forum/ftopic22421.html

    ^They used force staff (around 3 or 4 teammates) to save Bloodseeker several times. They even used it sometimes to isolate and kill. Altho their team lost, it is very entertaining. Watch…

  11. andrew Says:

    Hey this is super insightful. I especially like your luna build and it makes me wanna try it. As for force staff, me and my friends just get it as a joke item and we end up pushing eachother around into an early death. Sometimes its for pushing teams out of hiding in the fountain, but rarely do we use it practically.

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