Dota 6.64 - Tangible signs of a DPSgeddon
Posted by The DS Prince on October 21st, 2009 | Visited 11206 times, 1 so far todayPreviously, you read here that:
The next versions of Dota will be so DPS heavy, it will be a case of picking just one or even two DPS heroes and witness an Armageddon taking place.
This Armageddon, which we have since come to know as DPSgeddon, and fittingly so, are seeing very tangible signs of a prophecy being fulfilled, in the very version of 6.64.
Just recently the Dota community was treated to a mind-and-soul-breaking replay of Kuroky’s Lanaya (Templar Assassin) in a Farm4Fame match against TEG. I’m sure some of you have already seen this, but if you haven’t you might want to see for yourself the makings of the DPSgeddon. This replay is the epitome of the meaning of Lanaya’s hero name - that of a ruthless, armor-shredding Templar who will not let her prey escape. Kuroky in the person of Lanaya defied leaguers’ conventions and broke the TEG psyche like a Templar does.
How has the prophecy been fulfilled?
1. picking just one or even two DPS heroes - check. MYM picked Lanaya and Slardar, 2 DPS heroes.
2. witness an Armageddon taking place. - check.
Several times in the 20-minute game (say wow?), the heroes that proclaimed “Meet Your Makers” wiped out the heroes that had called themselves “Elder Gods” - a most ironical twist. But the greatest winner of all was obviously the Templar Assassin, effortlessly ratching up double kills and sending death shrills into the spines of TEG. The game should have proceeded longer, but the TEG of their own accord conceded defeat, their spirit obviously broken by a Templar the likes of which they have never seen before.
This replay is arguably the most dramatic and represents the significant turn that Dota is experiencing right now. Despite his complaints about certain things in Dota not being balanced, Kuroky has obviously made clever adjustments to cope with the change of the times. You can bet gold that a lot of players who wish to rise to divinity will focus on this replay, thus further accelerating the transition of Dota, from a previously AoE spell-oriented game, to an AoE DPS-oriented game, culminating in the phenomenon we now call the DPSgeddon.
Is this the reason why the item Khadgar’s Pipe of Insight was not allowed in the F4F league, in a well-intended, but perhaps fruitless attempt to delay the onslaught?
October 21st, 2009 at 4:24 am
I request a replay link!
It sounds.. scary.
Damn, I am gonna’ play DPS from now on.
Screw INT.
October 21st, 2009 at 4:45 am
@Justin
http://www.playdota.com/forums/84426/farm4fame-sb-r1-teg-vs-mym/
I have to agree with you. Lanaya was more than decent in this one. Letting Lanaya farm her dagger that quick means there was something wrong with TEG lineup. TEG need more innovation. And the tri-lane just raped Viper. XD
Personally, I hate the idea that DPSgeddon is actually coming true. Puck getting a Triple kill is more interesting to watch than Troll getting a rampage.
October 21st, 2009 at 5:58 am
I just came out of a game and I was using Lion.
Unfortunately, enemy lineup was Slardar, Huskar, Troll, TB and ES.
My team got raped badly =/
Thanks for the replay!
Will watch.
October 21st, 2009 at 6:57 pm
yeah, this replay was absolutely amazing to watch. Since lanaya is an under-used (read, never used) hero, it was really really fun to watch how she was played.
October 21st, 2009 at 7:27 pm
Nice review prince. I watched that replay alright. I, for one, am excited that this is actually coming true.
People are so quick to assume that when DPS is mentioned, Troll is the top pick. On the contrary, the best DPS heroes require skill and coordination, like the Lanaya visible in this replay. This Armageddon does not necessarily mean that the metagame will change to a long and boring one, but evident in this replay, the fast pace that DPS heroes can bring to the earlier aspects of the game will definitely show a more exciting future for DotA.
October 21st, 2009 at 11:48 pm
i disagree that this is an evident sign. If you watch the replay and analyze it completely, TeG was simply underplayed by MYM, but there are multiple minor factor that contributed to the insane control of MYM in that game. DPS was not the main reason. 2 semi-DPS heroes in a game is common if you ask me. TeG’s mistake in picks is one of the reasons they got hardcored. I mean, why pick chen if the enemy team already picked CM and Lion? thats really asking for it.
Also, Lanaya was picked last. This is a surprise, and TeG didnt have the room to respond. None of their picks are direct counter to lanaya, and KuroKy’s mid lane farming supreme was more of a factor why he was so buff. Not to mention, he missed out a lot of meld hits. I would blame the fail chen and weak control of Zeus rather than a strong lane controller for Kuro’s heavy farm.
TeG also didnt manage to comprehend MYM’s trilane strategy despite 2 games of MYM showing the same laning trend. the same class of heroes, the same lane, the same style. They simply didnt give a thought of the trilane, thinking CM was with Lion and Puck with Slardar. i mean of course, putting a semi carry in a trilane is weird, but MYM did the same strat with specter, and it worked. what could be so hard about it when a team has 2 of the best assisting players in the world?. MYM unexpectedly(to TeG) carry a massive trilane, using CM’s aura to keep puck alive top lane solo, though it didnt worked out so well, and power a lane with 3 aggressive heroes to shut it down. All in all, MYM knew TeG’s style completely(zeus solo mid, chen jungle, PoTM+SK, viper solo), while TeG didnt give much though to MYM’s, and that made them pay the price.
Their mistake letting the viper to continue his solo despite 1 deaths early was also a factor. Viper could not survive such trilane onslaught, yet they didnt take any reforming tactics. True, if that top lane was to switch bottom, it would be a waste of time, but at least it was worth it. They also didn’t suppress kuroky despite his status overpowering the Zues in control.
around 16 mins, TeG won a fight in the sentinel’s forest. This proves that their lineups was as decent as MYM’s, in other word it was a game of a superior against an inferior, as simple as that.
October 22nd, 2009 at 7:31 am
Just came to say I disagree with whatever Caspian says in this post and in his last post on DPSgeddon. I don’t have the time for proving my point though… Slardar has been used a lot of times in the past without being the main carry.
My point is just that DotA is far from getting line-ups with several ‘carries’. No need to counter or promote my statement.
Peace!
[Wrote this just because caspian goes on explaining a wrong concept the second time.
Words of Icefrog: "Most changes are usually a compilation of many different sets of data and requests over time. By “type of player” I do not mean competitive or casual at all, I mean the segment of player groups that use different mediums to express their views. The important thing to keep in mind when thinking about a remake is trying to make sure that the qualities players enjoyed in that character are maintained for the rehash."]
Again, no need to counter me. I just don’t have time for this.
October 22nd, 2009 at 8:41 am
In response to Phoenix and CFX my reply is quite simple. I never said that games were tending towards “several carries” or being that DPS can equal being a carry. My main point is 1 or 2 heroes specializing in physical damage in one team will feature heavily in future games, with support heroes propping them up for whatever role they are being intended for. The other point is, these 1 or 2 “physical damage” heroes will also be very powerful. These same DPS heroes could be regarded as “carries”, or they can also simply replace the role that heroes specializing in spell damage have been assuming in leagues. I think reiva understands what message I’m trying to get across very clearly. I quote:
What I really want to emphasize is you will see a dramatic reduction of lineups that focus exclusively on “ganking” or “pushing” or “blink-stun” in the future. Instead more and more lineups will see these DPS heroes assuming a much bigger role than before. In the past it used to be assumed that DPS heroes needed “farm” time to get strong. This will not be anymore - as is amply demonstrated by Kuroky’s Lanaya. And if this is true that it also follows that DPS heroes are thus very very strong, even overpowered if possible, because they are no longer encumbered by an “early-game” weakness but are now strong at all levels.
October 22nd, 2009 at 9:08 am
i agree a lot with DPSgeddon (although i think the idea is a bit shallow), but not with this post of ‘tangible’ sign. this game was a loss leaned more towards a team playing with better strategy. lanaya/slardar did not win most of the game.
October 22nd, 2009 at 7:06 pm
I think I see where you are going CFX. But like Prince said, the DPS heroes in recent replays (when used well of cors) now have the tendency to contribute a lot more than they used to. But in terms of strat by TeG, I think Loda’s comment on Gosu was pretty useful:
If this was followed, perhaps TeG would have had a better chance, although the loss looked to be inevitable. But do see it in the broad perspective that caspian described in his last post. Early-game is no longer hell for DPS carries.
October 23rd, 2009 at 2:21 am
exactly. by balance, both line-ups was competent. what failed was the laning strat of TeG, and their mistake letting lanaya farm up. if you look at it, kuroky did as what he did in every single game, but this time, it was more of plaaystyle mistake rather than a DPS hero having a solid early game. if that was the case, then PoTM would have been more contributive than she was. this is not a replay showing that DPS heroes are now as great as in carries, this is a replay of a team mistaken in their overall strategy, and the best carry player in the world was present in it. as simple as that
October 27th, 2009 at 4:58 am
Taken from your first post on DPSgeddon:
[quote]Unless leaguers make quick adjustments and stop insisting on a quick-gank playstyle, they will lose easily to a DPSgeddon-oriented lineup. I’m afraid, this time the frog will not listen to Kuroky’s pleas for a return to the gank-heavy era of 6.48b.[/quote]
2. Countering your own self???????
[quote]many veterans, even leaguers, even myself (I am actually very good with the RAL if you didn’t know ) will find themselves out of place, their skills not as useful anymore.[/quote]
[quote]However this does not mean that support heroes especially the RAL will lose their dominance. In fact their position will be even more comfortably entrenched because of it. One does not need to be the Emperor to command the Empire. In fact, all one needs to do is to be the High Priest influencing the Emperor. One case in mind - Bane has his Enfeeble skill causing a 120% loss of DPS. Imagine how convenient that would be when you square off against a DPS.[/quote]
October 27th, 2009 at 5:24 am
MODERATORS: Kindly quote my quotes if BBCode doesn’t work here… Thanks (and remove this line)
Now I got some time…
Taken from your first post on DPSgeddon:
1. [quote]Unless leaguers make quick adjustments and stop insisting on a quick-gank playstyle, they will lose easily to a DPSgeddon-oriented lineup. I’m afraid, this time the frog will not listen to Kuroky’s pleas for a return to the gank-heavy era of 6.48b.[/quote]Actually we’re going to see more ’surprise surprise’ heroes… like venge, spectre, etc. and others getting dagger. The game will still remain a ‘quick’ one.
2. [quote]many veterans, even leaguers, even myself (I am actually very good with the RAL if you didn’t know ) will find themselves out of place, their skills not as useful anymore.[/quote]
[quote]However this does not mean that support heroes especially the RAL will lose their dominance. In fact their position will be even more comfortably entrenched because of it. One does not need to be the Emperor to command the Empire. In fact, all one needs to do is to be the High Priest influencing the Emperor. One case in mind - Bane has his Enfeeble skill causing a 120% loss of DPS. Imagine how convenient that would be when you square off against a DPS.[/quote]
You actually countered your own text. lol?
3. [quote]The greatest losers in the coming DPSgeddon will be the gank cum AoE spell heroes, while the greatest winners, aside from the DPS, the supports who will anoint them as the messiahs of the future.[/quote]
Absolutely wrong! The new heroes that are used will be the one with ARMOR SHREDDING SPELLS… armor is heavy on gold in the new versions.
From your 2nd post on DPSgeddon:
1. [quote]What I really want to emphasize is you will see a dramatic reduction of lineups that focus exclusively on “ganking” or “pushing” or “blink-stun” in the future.[/quote]
Well, I say we’re gonna watch some blink-gank, roam-gank, simultaneous-two-lane-push, trilane strategies i.e. ganking and pushing and blink daggers will be seen even more! Should I post replays showing these?
2. What happened to Bristleback and NA??? You said they will rise further.
November 1st, 2009 at 6:58 am
This particular match was not won because of dps heros. The armour reduction strat which includes sladar + lanaya and maybe tide and vs is very popular this version. Because reducing enemies armour it gives dps an early entrance into the game.
November 1st, 2009 at 9:22 pm
On another note, if you actually watched the replay it was mym’s ganking that won the game.
November 5th, 2009 at 8:34 pm
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- Power treads
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- Butterfly
- Lothar Edge
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aND likeD Blo0DseKEeR. . . . . . . .
ok thANk’z ^_^