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Why bfury should NOT be gotten for yunero. READ ON
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reyuron wrote:
There IS NO WAY you can compare a hyperstone to a bfury.
And as a conclusion, what the f*** Counter_Force[X] ?
Being an old resident of dotastrategy doesn't give you the right to be an asshole. This is a forum, where people discuss, not troll.
what did i troll? read what i mean before commenting
There IS NO WAY you can compare a hyperstone to a bfury.
And as a conclusion, what the f*** Counter_Force[X] ?
Being an old resident of dotastrategy doesn't give you the right to be an asshole. This is a forum, where people discuss, not troll.
hypers on jugg is comparable to BF
more omni means anything to you? more% to proc crits means anything to you?
and here we go on your most stupid pointHyperstone = IAS
Bfury = Damage, regen for both HP&MP, and 35%cleave
Item cost isn't the same, but even then, you can't get a hyperstone, and something that compensates for the 35%cleave and something for HP&MP regen in the same budget as bfury.
"BFury is excellent to farm, better than bfury(which is imo, a better initiator or an escape, since it's dmg is relatively high and AoE, and magic immunity)"
now if thats what you mean, i wonder who's stupid
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Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 4:24 am
"@koy koy
In late game, you will have sufficient damage, and AS to kill creeps easily, like I have said before, is cleaving the only GOOD way to farm? No..huge damage and fast attack speed can take down creeps just as easy. "
..... what the hell...? 2-3 hits per meleecreep and 1-2 hits(omni build) per rangecreep OR 4 hits(bfury) to kill ALL meleecreeps and 2-3 hits to kill the rangedcreep.
The point of bfury is to evolve your character and the game into something that's on par with what you want it to be. Bfury supplies everything in 1 item, and is undeniably useful. The cleave is a more valid farming tool than bladestorm, 'cause bladestorm imho is an initiator or an escape primarily. It's just too useful to escape with to use on creeps, that's why i'd get bfury.
You constantly say "140 dmg cleave, how u gonna kill with that?"
You're NOT buying the bfury to kill people with cleave, you're buying it to farm faster to buy better items for yurnero.
There's a big difference effectivity and efficiency. And bfury is just more efficient. It'll help you kill faster(cleave = freakin' AOE dmg), stay in play(healthregen + endless healing ward) and later on, it'll help you easier and push faster, which is undeniably a good thing in dota.
I hate to rely on 1 sole skill to kill heroes with, unless it's something lowcooldown like,I don't know.. stormbolt or something. Onmislash isn't a 1hit1kill wonder like you make it to be.
"Get butterfly & S&Y and you'll pwn with omni"
that might be true, but only very situational, i'd say butterfly & satanic are better, 'cause you'll stay alive longer.
Omni is too situational, they reduced the searchrange, which somewhat makes it better, but even though. It's 3/5/8 hits, which is rarely enough to kill enemies at fullhp with. Ofcourse butter and S&Y/satanic will severely reduce there health, but also reduce yours, since you'll need to be in realtime combat.
My point is that people relying on an ultimate with a 110sec cd(at best) are more noob than people relying on an item to farm the crap out of dota.
Bfury is a bridge to better items, it helps you gain the gold to buy items that'll truly let yurnero shine.
There IS NO WAY you can compare a hyperstone to a bfury.
Hyperstone = IAS
Bfury = Damage, regen for both HP&MP, and 35%cleave
Item cost isn't the same, but even then, you can't get a hyperstone, and something that compensates for the 35%cleave and something for HP&MP regen in the same budget as bfury.
BFury is excellent to farm, better than bfury(which is imo, a better initiator or an escape, since it's dmg is relatively high and AoE, and magic immunity)
And as a conclusion, what the f*** Counter_Force[X] ?
Being an old resident of dotastrategy doesn't give you the right to be an asshole. This is a forum, where people discuss, not troll.
This is what you wrote
and I will piece by piece degrade your argument to a mere sludge.
'The point of bfury is to evolve your character and the game into something that's on par with what you want it to be'
Do you even know what you wrote? it doesnt make any sense..why would you want to evolve the game? what? Are you trying to say that the point of bfury is to make the game into what you want it to be? lol? I assume you must be talking about farming and getting the items you want. So are you saying that bfury is an item that you don't want? farming can be done with something other than cleaving you know..JUST UNDERSTAND THAT.
'You're NOT buying the bfury to kill people with cleave, you're buying it to farm faster to buy better items for yurnero.'
That is what some of the other guys said, that you can get triple kill because he procs crits faster. AND BFURY does not make you farm that much faster to make a damn difference..while you are tower hitting, do you think cleave will make a difference or a faster aspd will?
'There's a big difference effectivity and efficiency. And bfury is just more efficient. It'll help you kill faster(cleave = freakin' AOE dmg), stay in play(healthregen + endless healing ward) and later on, it'll help you easier and push faster, which is undeniably a good thing in dota'
I think you must be talking about effectivity (not even a word by the way) not efficiency..because items like butterfly are more efficient in doing one particular thing. It definitely does not help you push faster..does it help you take down towers? (as I mentioned before). which is undeniably part of what you call 'pushing'.
Who was saying rely on omnislashing? I never said you can take down a whole team or whatnot..I was talking about how other items are more effective on yunero, such as butterfly which CAN aid in the use of omnislashing where faster aspd will result in more hits (normal). If you think we non-bfury yunero players rely on our ult to kill all our kills, then you are deluding yourself.
'Bfury is a bridge to better items, it helps you gain the gold to buy items that'll truly let yurnero shine.'
what the ... are you talking about? so you spend a freaking 4375 gold to 'aid' you in buying better items? just for the sake of aiding? what useless strategy you got.
Hey lets buy a divine rapier so it can aid me in farming for a chicken!! you make a useless point.
I WAS NOT saying a hyperstone is comparable to a bfury...nor will you ever hear me say it. where do you pull all this bullshit from anyway?
Your argument seems to rely on buying a bfury to FARM..and not everyone gets bfury for farming like you do. they have this idea that since he's crit chance are high, he can get double,triple kills by cleaving those damages, but only gets ONE bfury which gives you 35% cleave.
READ MY DAMN ARGUMENTS before you post such ridiculous nonsense.
And if you do decide to get 2 bfuries, you will be getting the items as your core items, thus cant make the argument that you get it to farm for better items..
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Flodian
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Crystal Liu aka Golden SparrowMega Kill Posts: 875 Joined: 06 Jul 2007 19676 gold
My friend... "READ MY DAMN ARGUMENTS before you post such ridiculous nonsense. "
With responses as long as yours, I am not surprised that people don't read it. But rest assure, I am taking nothing away from you. I actually read what you wrote... and you do impose a viable point. So lets just settle this, koy koy you are clearly out of your mind and know nothing of what you are talking about. Not only that but you also appear to be the sad lonely minority here... So please research on what you are talking about first before bashing on anyone else's thoughts.
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LOL!
My last post was kind of long because I copied what the other guy wrote. it should be cut in half!
I try to make an interesting point but people seems to get discouraged by the length of my response..
I say the same thing over and over again in other related threads but no1 reads it..sigh at the lazy world
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@CFX: Hypers on juggs is a good choice.
@topic:
Tell me then, what is wasted on him when you get battlefury.
Does he need higher hp regen?: YES
Does he need the damage: YES
Does he need the cleave: YES
Does he need the mana regen: YES
Your reason is Bladefury can farm much faster? You just contradicted yourself by saying that as mana regen helps him use Bladefury too. And might I remind you that it his ONLY protection against nukers is Bladefury and should not be spammed on mere creeps.
You think that Battlefury is bad because you last hit? You just contradicted yourself again. Battlefury gives extra damage and splashes the critical. Allowing you to get easy last hits even though the other creeps hp around you aren't in 'last hitting range'.
Battlefury vs radiance:
Radiance is a remarkable item for chasers, ill give it that, but it is also slower to farm up as well. It constantly pushes, which makes you a gank magnet, better get it for heroes who can withstand the ganks as well as have other AOE, disable or team assisting spells. And it PULLS creeps My reasons are expressed below:
Battlefury:
-It can be bought in components, thus, making you stronger in stages that is useful throughout the game.
-It can be TOGGLED so if you don't wish to push you can just stand back and only last hit. And if you wish to push, you use auto-attack.
-It doesn't pull creeps to you in the jungle. Neutrtals will sense you and come running to you. This makes your ultimate useless.
-As mentioned above, Yurnero's ulti is good to use in the jungle because of the reduced search range now and the farming capabilities. Yurnero jungles during mid to get his items faster and to kill off straying heroes. So battlefury helps with neutral farming as you can't use the 'last hit' method.
Now, nobody ever said getting battlefury for him is the exact build and nobody ever said that getting TWO battlefuries for him is the ONLY way. There are other ways but my guide merely SUGGESTS a build. This is what everyone DOESNT get and is what PISSES ME OFF. My guide SUGGESTS it, if you want to get another item its up to you, thats what multiple item builds are for. If you have a better alternative, then make another guide using that build and I'm sure other people will start flaming you like they flamed me over my build.
The money could be put to better use getting IAS items than two furies. But when you combine IAS items with fury, now that is amazing.
And the Splash damage is merely a bonus, the icing on the cake if you would say. Plus, you again just contradicted your own point of the low damage splash gives by saying high IAS allows for higher DPS. Higher DPS means more of the '140 damage' splashes you said in your first post.
This is just my OPINION and if you wish to argue, I assure you, I won't go around calling people noobs. Many different item builds can work and its no use forcing your opinion onto others and condemning their builds just because it is unlike yours. That would be plain childish.
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LOL!
i dont even play juggy much coz i suck
i play 'noob' heros
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I'm getting tired about these kind of forums.
I'm warning you, you know who you are and where this thread is going if no one will stop this.
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I agree with Unholy. Forcing opionions on others especially with topics like these is pointless and always ends up in an argument. Even If topics like these are to be put up, at least have a more 'open minded' approach.
Edit: On yeah and I apologise if my earlier post offended anyone.
And please use the 'quote' tags. Don't just copy-paste other people's posts, it hurts the eyes.
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Sigh here comes the Strategy maker.
Ok I got a lot of things to say about what you wrote, and I assume you haven't read everything of what was said in this thread, because you address problems that was already proven false.
'Your reason is Bladefury can farm much faster? You just contradicted yourself by saying that as mana regen helps him use Bladefury too. And might I remind you that it his ONLY protection against nukers is Bladefury and should not be spammed on mere creeps.'
If you read, I have NEVER suggested that bladefury should be used to farm creeps, I said LAST HITTING should be used to farm, and later game your fast aspd plus your high damage will suffice and thus no need for the cleaving.
Does he need higher hp regen?: YES (can be compensated by lifesteal so NO)
Does he need the damage: YES (can be gotten elsewhere with better damage)
Does he need the cleave: YES (NO, where does it say that jugger needs cleave?)
Does he need the mana regen: YES (compensated by vlad's brilliance aura providing you DON'T spam your bladefury on creeps..see I never said you should use bladefury to farm)
"You think that Battlefury is bad because you last hit? You just contradicted yourself again. Battlefury gives extra damage and splashes the critical. Allowing you to get easy last hits even though the other creeps hp around you aren't in 'last hitting range'. "
Suppose you cleave the damage. EG. 90 base damage + 65 bfury damage=155
35% of 155 is 54.25 damage..you really want to CLEAVE that? it's tiny, and useless (this is assuming that you only have boots, and rushed bfury) even if you deal 400 damage, cleave is only 135 as stated. its pretty much negligible.
"Battlefury vs radiance: "
Where did you pull this from?
Radiance was never mentioned in this thread.
You say you are suggesting a build. Sure everyone can suggest a build, why not get boots, aghanims, and 4 branches? Im suggesting a build to you right now. The thread is about why its NOT viable to get a bfury for the GIVEN reasons. You can get all the items you want, but we're giving and discussing our opinions on why the gold could be spent on something better.
"And the Splash damage is merely a bonus, the icing on the cake if you would say. Plus, you again just contradicted your own point of the low damage splash gives by saying high IAS allows for higher DPS. Higher DPS means more of the '140 damage' splashes you said in your first post. "
How is splash damage the icing? Isn't that the primary reason why you get the item bfury because it gives what we call CLEAVE?? otherwise why not get linkens for regen, or desolator for the damage? because bfury provides what other items dont which is cleave. Yes higher dps means more splashes but that means you have to get the aspd item which will take you longer if you get a bfury or two.
Juggernaut is good as a single attack hero, not cleaving..leave that to cleavers like magnus, just like you leave bashing to heroes like void. You keep saying that you can get aspd items after your bfury but do you think that we will get a aspd item while you get a bfury and not get other items while you get YOUR aspd item? why are you being so biased?
You keep saying I'm contradicting myself
but you state ideas that don't come from me and other ideas that weren't even contradicting myself but YOU, because you said you will get aspd item to make more frequent cleaves, but that means you endorse the idea of an aspd item which is what I SAID you should get in the first place.
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does anybody here spam bladefury to harass? persev is a must in the build sure u might make a linken out of it for survival but you arent the hero that starts a battle so more dmg is advised -> aka bfry.like amplirage said its made out of relatively cheap components that help throughtout the whole game and i personally dont get it especially for the cleave but for regen and dmg. If u bothered wasting a slot for persev just make bfry. For me geting persev means i go back at fountain not to often. Bfry is good early to mid game.
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are you guys referring to me?
advice me on what I have done wrong so I can in the future avoid posting like that again
EDIT: @Amp
I was never forcing my opinions onto anyone..I simply stated what I thought, made a discussion and gave my thoughts on why their pros of bfuries were not as useful as others. I haven't forced my builds on anyone either, since I never gave any build items (except in a kind of off topic discussion with CFX which didn't really endorse my item builds). If you say that I've been forcing my ideas, you probably did as much as I did in that post of yours. Remember I was open to criticism and gave my opinions afterwards.
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Last edited by metallic_ghost on Fri May 09, 2008 5:48 am; edited 1 time in total
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I refuse to explain again and take part in this senseless argument and I certainly do not wish to get warned.
And for other topic readers who read my post and quote it perhaps...make sure you take time to read through it.
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I'm reading it now Casp.
If you have a problems with me telling other people to stop acting like a moderator.
Then I will stop. thanks for telling me what I have actually done wrong.
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