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the new imba hero
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Well, you need to "time" it if you want to hit a hero with the AoE.
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Yes he will get owned late game by late game hero killers.
troll am or clockwerk etc can own him since he doesnt have stun mechanism.
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@ Juka
sure it's 100% AoE, that jsut means everyone around you gets a hit from you ever 4 seconds. 1 on 1 that's no big deal, it's just 60 mroe dmg every four seconds which makes weaver stronger. In a gangk that shouldn't be a big deal either as it's a gangk. 2v1, it takes more than both taking a hit every 4 seconds to throw the battle. so where is the imba? the fact that he can harass with it? much better harassers than a hit every 16/12/8/4 seconds.
as for torrent, the enemy can't see the bubble eh?then i guess it's mroe like sun strike. The point is there are equal better and worse versions of the spell. he doesn't have the mana pool to spam this ridiculously and it still takes timing. even if the enemy can't see the bubbles, it isn't easy to land.
@ arrgh101well
the buffs to the party are useful, but IMO they are more of a consolation prize "thanks for trying, here's some buffs". the 500 AoE and stun outweighs the party buffs by A LOT.
stop freaking out guys. slow down, take a good look at the skills compare it to others. he isn't as immortal, invincible, whatever as you think. he's really just a new hero. get to know him and you'll find he's not as bad as you think. promise.
EDIT:
oh and @ Troydoink
you gotta time out the tidebringer to maximize effectiveness. it's the difference between auto attacking and last hitting/denying.
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@ Ryno2112, I have a few things to state.
While I'm new to DotA Strategy, I'm not new to DotA. As other people have also stated, there are a few things you need to check before you state that we are just whining.
Torrent - Has a MASSIVE range, nearly double Pudges hook range and the enemy is COMPLETELY unaware of it, the bubbles that people are looking out for will only apply for maphackers, because it is only visable to allies.
Tidebringer - A godlike spell... It's not just "doing 60 more dmg in an AoE". It's his attack damage, his item damage, AND 60 bonus damage in a massive 500 AoE, which can hit every ranged hero except for sniper, and even in early game, sniper has a lower range anyway. On average at 1st level, each attack does about 90 dmg.. +15 for tidebringer, and then 500 AoE. Just in a theory - 4 creeps+2 heroes = 105 x 6 = 630 damage for a level 1 spell at 1st level. Not imba hey?
X Marks the spot - This ability also has quite a casting range, this is not quite as much a vs's ulti, but that is her ULTI! And, it requires her to be swapped with the enemy, where as with Xmts, you can just lay the damage on and they can't run, else you wait with your team untill they tele back, and then rape them. This is a normal skill that is a lot better than vs's ulti, it's more of a team skill, and when used with a good team, it's really imbalanced.
Ghost Ship - This I have no problems with, it slows your movespeed by 30% and gives your enemies a bit of a chance to lay into you, but with any int hero or disabler, his ult in pretty useless - Atropos for example, He sleeps one enemy, he Enfeebles the other (Drastically reducing damage) and Ulti's the other - That's just one hero that can pretty much eliminate 3 heroes even in a gank, so his ult is easilly counter-able, just deny him and his allies and his ult is pretty much disabled.
When you say certain abilities are like others, it's not the same. It's like saying Sven's storm bolt is like Leoric's Stun, it isn't. Leoric has a longer stun range but a slower speet of the stun projectil;e, where as Sven is the opposite, Shorter range, faster stun, which makes the 2 different heroes different to use, and is the same for many other simillar spells, Icefrog doesn't make abilities the same, he changes them around to make the game for interesting, and this new hero does that. But, it needs to be balanced.
- M(O_O)D
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@ Mood
I've already countered everything you just said, but I'll counter it all again.
I'll also say i've played against many KUnkkas and have beaten them down cuz they ran aroudn thinking "hey i have imba hero lawls" or their timing was off with their spells, or whatever. all it is is people getting tricked by new abilities.
Torrent. easy spell to see coming. no not cuz of bubbles, Kunkka raises his blade in the air. so what do you do? move where you wouldn't have before. if you were running away run to the side for a brief second, the AoE is small so the timing has to be precise. I can't stretch enough how easy this move is to dodge. they have to try and guess where you're gunna be going, which mean 70ish% of ppl are going to go with the stereotypical next move, just do something not stereotypical lol. now you're gunna continue with your "hella imba range zomg!" it's just part of the spell, it's like sun strike. is that imba? ya sure sun strike doesn't slow them, but it also can be targeted anywhere on the map. so it's really jsut a sun strike that sacrificed global for slow.
Tidebringer. so is tide hunter imba? +200 dmg to his weapon dmg and his normal dmg. on top of that it's a chance every hit IIRC so that could potential happen every hit for four seconds, where as tidebringer has a max of once every four seconds. and you quoted me misinterpreting me. i know it's 60+whatever other dmg you have. why does that make it imba? sure once every four seconds everyone takes a hit from you. but like i said before, in mid to late game it doesn't make the battle. if it's a gangk, that once every four seconds wont matter cuz it's a gangk, if it's one on one that's just 60 dmg mroe ever 4 seconds, and if creeps are nearby it keeps it one on one. if both teams are at it it's really no different from having three b-furies, inf act three b-furies would be better as it'd happen very attack and do 105% splash. all this skill is for is for farming and harassing early game (which early game it wont be mroe than once every 8 seconds until the very end of early game). i already explained that int he one on one situation weaver would triumph cuz he gets double damage, hell tide hunter would triumph cuz he'd proc more than once every four seconds and he has stun. this isn't imba at all it's just different.
as for your math it'd be 70X6= 420 dmg. how did i get 70 times 6? he does 50-60 dmg at level one, the skill gives +15 dmg at level one. average it to 55+15 = 70. four creeps two heroes = 6. so 70X6. that's 210 less dmg than your math said. and it's only 70 dmg. it's the equivalent of taking a forked lightening at level 1 from Rhasta, except his forked lightening comes back faster lol. so obviously forked lightening is imba right?
X marks the Spot. yanno, this reminds me a lot of fear. everyone in WoW thinks fear is imba cuz you run around stupid for a short amount of time. in actuality, it's a lot more balanced than a rogue jumping on you and stunning you until you're dead. what's mroe imba permabash troll or X marks the spot? hrm. this move actually helps you. the player is gunna do one of two things when they use X, theya re gunan chase you or wait for you to come back. if they wait, you've just ran away and gained some hp regen as he waited for you to get teled back, lol. if he chases, then there is no difference between this, and stun. none. if he was given a two second stun bolt you'd be meh, but no cuz it teles you back it's imba.plz. this doesn't even do what it's supposed to do and stop blinkers from getting away. just run instead of blinking when this happens, once it wears off blink away. the cool down on this is thirty seconds. if he can keep up with you for thirty seconds you were screwed anyways.
oh and venge's ult puts her in front of the enemy as they're runnign away, this doesn't. that can be a disadvantage in some situatiosn and an advantage in others. the x teleporting them back can be an advantage in some and a disadvantage in others. it's just like any other skill. also, keep in mind just cuz it's an ult doesn't mean it's an ultimate skill, it means it needs to be an ultimate skill for that hero. which is why this skill is a normal skill for him and a skill like it is an ult for vengeful.
lastly, I'm saying it's like certain abilities in comparison. not saying it's exactly the same. your example was horrible btw. those two abilities are very comparable. just like all the comparisons I've made.
honestly, stop holding on to your excuses of imba hero and start learning from your mistakes. I hope he doesn't get the nerf stick, he doesn't need it.
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i think x marks the spot is imba... nothing you can do to stop it (that i know of). it works great while chasing and being chased...
Does anyone have a skill build for him i could use?
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@ Exit - Light
X just takes some getting used to, try running off one route, then when you're teled back running off another route. Most of the time it'll trick the player =)
as for a skill build, this is what I like to use.
1. tidebringer
2. torrent
3. x Marks the spot
4. tidebringer
5. tidebringer
6. ghost ship
7. tidebringer
8. torrent
9. torrent
10. torrent
11. ghost ship
12. x marks the spot
13. x marks the spot
14. x marks the spot
15. stats
16. ghost ship
17+ stats
reasoning. max tidebringer early. it's a gret early game harasser and a great farming skill. try to time out when it'll come back so you can maximize it's effectiveness. I make sure i ahve torrent and x marks the spot the entire game pretty much, x at two seconds is really all you need so i wait till late game to max that as late game the extra seconds are more useful. maxing torrent second is a good idea because of the damage and range upgrades. always get ghost ship, it's hard to aim that crash, but it's worth having the buffs and the chance to crash.
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Just look at what CoCo does. He X's someone he torrents on the X and ghostships at the X. How does the hero live? Even if it was 3 v 1, he has 2 nukes, 1 of which is also a buff, and he has cleaving damage too. Don't forget that's all without any items. He can build DPS + BFury + Tide and he has insane splash with insane DPS. He's also a STR hero so HP isn't a big factor. Whoever says he's not imba is insane. He's 100% OP and he should get nerfed hard if not just take him out of dota -_-"
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Tidehunter. Left click a hero start attacking omg he does a ballerina spin OMG HE JUST DID IT TWICE IN A ROW hero is running hahahaha GUSH (enemy hero) ONOZ I'M SLOWED AND HAVE NO ARMOR!!! (Tidehunter) Hahaha you ain't getting away n00b *attack attack attack* (enemy allies) Don't worry we'll save joo! *enemies attack Tide but omg he lowers damage by 27 and removes debuffs every 8 seconds) (Tidehunter) OH NO YOU DI'INT JUST TRY THAT! RAVAGE! (enemies) ZZZZZZOOOOOOMMMMMMGGGGGGGG (Tidehunter) *spin spin spin* TRRRRRIIIIPPLE KILL! Yep, I'm perfectly balanced, thank you IceFrog.
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Ryno2112 wrote:
He's not imba, you just don't know how to counter him yet. I've played a few games where ppl have started getting smart with what he's about. he takes good timing at all stages of the game. i haven't seen anyone able to use his ult like a pro yet because it's a hard skill to aim. It sometimes seems sporadic where it crashes. here's teh break down:
1st skill, torrent. the skill has a two second delay, tit's just as hard to aim as Lesharec's AoE stun imo. very easy to doge. you got 2 seconds to gtfo. the radius is also small. the only reason this skill is getting ppl right now is because they aren't looking for it. once people get used to watching for a small ring of bubbles, this skill wills eperate pros from noobs.
2nd skill, tideblade (or whatever it's called). Honestly, it's just one hit every four seconds. yes it can hurt, and yes it certainly helps a lot, but it isn't imba, it's just a good skill. It's like watcher's double attack. I don't see anyone screamign that it's imba. doing double damage to one target vs doing 60 more dmg in an AoE is pretty up for grabs (i say 60 more because most ppl get b-fury with Kunkka so they already have cleave going on) if you can't survive the 60 more dmg every 4 seconds, you weren't gunna survive the fight anyways.
3rd skill, X marks the spot. this is the closest skill to becoming Imba. however, it's just a different version of Vengeful's ult. really, once again once people get used to the skill ppl will be able to counter it. it's really just a stun, except they have the opportunity to fight instead of sit there (as running away is useless, you'll just be teled back)
Ult, Ghost Ship. most people don't even know what this does. every time i play Kunkka my team mates always ask "what does that do" which gives further testimony to the fact that people just need to learn what Kunkka is all about. This skill is very difficult to aim in fact, if you can't aim it the only good it's for is the buff it gives you and your allies, and sometimes when you get lucky it does damage and stun. i don't think anyone could argue that the skill is imba.
Kunkka has two main weaknesses. He's very dependent on timing. you gotta time out your torrent, gotta be able to estimate how logn x will last, even with tideblade if you can estimate when it's back up, you can already be charging by the time it's up and bam, you've made better use of the skill than waiting, realizing it's there, then charging.
second weakness is he's very mana dependent, but his mana pool is nothing. someone said torrent can be spammed, it really can't be. it's Like Leoric's stun. sure if he has the mana he can spam, but without the right item build, he can't spam it.
so plz stop QQing jsut cuz you don't know the hero yet. he's balanced, you just don't know how to counter him yet.
He's not imba, you just don't know how to counter him yet. I've played a few games where ppl have started getting smart with what he's about. he takes good timing at all stages of the game. i haven't seen anyone able to use his ult like a pro yet because it's a hard skill to aim. It sometimes seems sporadic where it crashes. here's teh break down:
1st skill, torrent. the skill has a two second delay, tit's just as hard to aim as Lesharec's AoE stun imo. very easy to doge. you got 2 seconds to gtfo. the radius is also small. the only reason this skill is getting ppl right now is because they aren't looking for it. once people get used to watching for a small ring of bubbles, this skill wills eperate pros from noobs.
2nd skill, tideblade (or whatever it's called). Honestly, it's just one hit every four seconds. yes it can hurt, and yes it certainly helps a lot, but it isn't imba, it's just a good skill. It's like watcher's double attack. I don't see anyone screamign that it's imba. doing double damage to one target vs doing 60 more dmg in an AoE is pretty up for grabs (i say 60 more because most ppl get b-fury with Kunkka so they already have cleave going on) if you can't survive the 60 more dmg every 4 seconds, you weren't gunna survive the fight anyways.
3rd skill, X marks the spot. this is the closest skill to becoming Imba. however, it's just a different version of Vengeful's ult. really, once again once people get used to the skill ppl will be able to counter it. it's really just a stun, except they have the opportunity to fight instead of sit there (as running away is useless, you'll just be teled back)
Ult, Ghost Ship. most people don't even know what this does. every time i play Kunkka my team mates always ask "what does that do" which gives further testimony to the fact that people just need to learn what Kunkka is all about. This skill is very difficult to aim in fact, if you can't aim it the only good it's for is the buff it gives you and your allies, and sometimes when you get lucky it does damage and stun. i don't think anyone could argue that the skill is imba.
Kunkka has two main weaknesses. He's very dependent on timing. you gotta time out your torrent, gotta be able to estimate how logn x will last, even with tideblade if you can estimate when it's back up, you can already be charging by the time it's up and bam, you've made better use of the skill than waiting, realizing it's there, then charging.
second weakness is he's very mana dependent, but his mana pool is nothing. someone said torrent can be spammed, it really can't be. it's Like Leoric's stun. sure if he has the mana he can spam, but without the right item build, he can't spam it.
so plz stop QQing jsut cuz you don't know the hero yet. he's balanced, you just don't know how to counter him yet.
Shh. All heroes have counters. Admiral is just another Lycan. Instead of taking 1-2 heroes to counter him, it takes a team of disables. You obviously don't know the mechanics of the Admiral.
1. Torrent? Skill Synergy. No skill as powerful as torrent would be the simple point and click people like you are used to. Let's look at Leshrac. Is Pulse Nova or Diabolic Edict useful without having any method of getting close to whoever you're targetting? No it isn't. Leshrac has an AoE stun for that reason. OMG! Leshrac's stun has such a small AoE stun and I can't just point and click it! Whatever will we do? Okay. What hero is so imbalanced that you can just point and click a button and deal 2670 damage over 8 seconds? None! It's all about skill synergy and teamwork.
2. Tidebringer splashes 100% in a 500 AoE. It splashes the 60 bonus damage, your base damage, your damage from items including stat boosts. That's splashing 100% of your damage in a 500 AoE and cannot be blocked.
3. X Marks the Spot - No timing involved. You obviously don't notice the "Return" function. You mark the X. Start the Torrent, and return the hero after 1.5 seconds. You don't need to wait the full duration.
4. Ghost Ship is basically a combination of Bounty Hunter's new track and a less effective version of Omniknight's Guardian Angel. This skill makes Admiral almost untouchable with his base armor. HotD and Phase Boots and this guy is already untouchable.
Very little timing involved in Admiral. All you need to do is Mark the X, start the torrent, wait 1-2 seconds, return, and send the Ghost Ship. You get 30% movement speed from Ghost Ship and your enemy is slowed 30% from Torrent. Guaranteed skill. What you don't get is that you can return people to the X without waiting the full duration.
You are very inaccurate in your statements. Tidebringer costs no mana. So after hitting creeps a couple of times and letting your enemies take full cleave damage, X marks the spot and a Torrent will kill them. Also you seem not to notice that Kunkka has a base mana of 234 which is insanely high for a Strength hero along with an intelligence gain of 18+2.2.
Seriously, I'm not even going to quote your second post because it is so full of crap.
EDIT: I actually am, because I can't stand how much crap is in it.
Ryno2112 wrote:
@ Mood
I've already countered everything you just said, but I'll counter it all again.
I'll also say i've played against many KUnkkas and have beaten them down cuz they ran aroudn thinking "hey i have imba hero lawls" or their timing was off with their spells, or whatever. all it is is people getting tricked by new abilities.
Torrent. easy spell to see coming. no not cuz of bubbles, Kunkka raises his blade in the air. so what do you do? move where you wouldn't have before. if you were running away run to the side for a brief second, the AoE is small so the timing has to be precise. I can't stretch enough how easy this move is to dodge. they have to try and guess where you're gunna be going, which mean 70ish% of ppl are going to go with the stereotypical next move, just do something not stereotypical lol. now you're gunna continue with your "hella imba range zomg!" it's just part of the spell, it's like sun strike. is that imba? ya sure sun strike doesn't slow them, but it also can be targeted anywhere on the map. so it's really jsut a sun strike that sacrificed global for slow.
Tidebringer. so is tide hunter imba? +200 dmg to his weapon dmg and his normal dmg. on top of that it's a chance every hit IIRC so that could potential happen every hit for four seconds, where as tidebringer has a max of once every four seconds. and you quoted me misinterpreting me. i know it's 60+whatever other dmg you have. why does that make it imba? sure once every four seconds everyone takes a hit from you. but like i said before, in mid to late game it doesn't make the battle. if it's a gangk, that once every four seconds wont matter cuz it's a gangk, if it's one on one that's just 60 dmg mroe ever 4 seconds, and if creeps are nearby it keeps it one on one. if both teams are at it it's really no different from having three b-furies, inf act three b-furies would be better as it'd happen very attack and do 105% splash. all this skill is for is for farming and harassing early game (which early game it wont be mroe than once every 8 seconds until the very end of early game). i already explained that int he one on one situation weaver would triumph cuz he gets double damage, hell tide hunter would triumph cuz he'd proc more than once every four seconds and he has stun. this isn't imba at all it's just different.
as for your math it'd be 70X6= 420 dmg. how did i get 70 times 6? he does 50-60 dmg at level one, the skill gives +15 dmg at level one. average it to 55+15 = 70. four creeps two heroes = 6. so 70X6. that's 210 less dmg than your math said. and it's only 70 dmg. it's the equivalent of taking a forked lightening at level 1 from Rhasta, except his forked lightening comes back faster lol. so obviously forked lightening is imba right?
X marks the Spot. yanno, this reminds me a lot of fear. everyone in WoW thinks fear is imba cuz you run around stupid for a short amount of time. in actuality, it's a lot more balanced than a rogue jumping on you and stunning you until you're dead. what's mroe imba permabash troll or X marks the spot? hrm. this move actually helps you. the player is gunna do one of two things when they use X, theya re gunan chase you or wait for you to come back. if they wait, you've just ran away and gained some hp regen as he waited for you to get teled back, lol. if he chases, then there is no difference between this, and stun. none. if he was given a two second stun bolt you'd be meh, but no cuz it teles you back it's imba.plz. this doesn't even do what it's supposed to do and stop blinkers from getting away. just run instead of blinking when this happens, once it wears off blink away. the cool down on this is thirty seconds. if he can keep up with you for thirty seconds you were screwed anyways.
oh and venge's ult puts her in front of the enemy as they're runnign away, this doesn't. that can be a disadvantage in some situatiosn and an advantage in others. the x teleporting them back can be an advantage in some and a disadvantage in others. it's just like any other skill. also, keep in mind just cuz it's an ult doesn't mean it's an ultimate skill, it means it needs to be an ultimate skill for that hero. which is why this skill is a normal skill for him and a skill like it is an ult for vengeful.
lastly, I'm saying it's like certain abilities in comparison. not saying it's exactly the same. your example was horrible btw. those two abilities are very comparable. just like all the comparisons I've made.
honestly, stop holding on to your excuses of imba hero and start learning from your mistakes. I hope he doesn't get the nerf stick, he doesn't need it.
@ Mood
I've already countered everything you just said, but I'll counter it all again.
I'll also say i've played against many KUnkkas and have beaten them down cuz they ran aroudn thinking "hey i have imba hero lawls" or their timing was off with their spells, or whatever. all it is is people getting tricked by new abilities.
Torrent. easy spell to see coming. no not cuz of bubbles, Kunkka raises his blade in the air. so what do you do? move where you wouldn't have before. if you were running away run to the side for a brief second, the AoE is small so the timing has to be precise. I can't stretch enough how easy this move is to dodge. they have to try and guess where you're gunna be going, which mean 70ish% of ppl are going to go with the stereotypical next move, just do something not stereotypical lol. now you're gunna continue with your "hella imba range zomg!" it's just part of the spell, it's like sun strike. is that imba? ya sure sun strike doesn't slow them, but it also can be targeted anywhere on the map. so it's really jsut a sun strike that sacrificed global for slow.
Tidebringer. so is tide hunter imba? +200 dmg to his weapon dmg and his normal dmg. on top of that it's a chance every hit IIRC so that could potential happen every hit for four seconds, where as tidebringer has a max of once every four seconds. and you quoted me misinterpreting me. i know it's 60+whatever other dmg you have. why does that make it imba? sure once every four seconds everyone takes a hit from you. but like i said before, in mid to late game it doesn't make the battle. if it's a gangk, that once every four seconds wont matter cuz it's a gangk, if it's one on one that's just 60 dmg mroe ever 4 seconds, and if creeps are nearby it keeps it one on one. if both teams are at it it's really no different from having three b-furies, inf act three b-furies would be better as it'd happen very attack and do 105% splash. all this skill is for is for farming and harassing early game (which early game it wont be mroe than once every 8 seconds until the very end of early game). i already explained that int he one on one situation weaver would triumph cuz he gets double damage, hell tide hunter would triumph cuz he'd proc more than once every four seconds and he has stun. this isn't imba at all it's just different.
as for your math it'd be 70X6= 420 dmg. how did i get 70 times 6? he does 50-60 dmg at level one, the skill gives +15 dmg at level one. average it to 55+15 = 70. four creeps two heroes = 6. so 70X6. that's 210 less dmg than your math said. and it's only 70 dmg. it's the equivalent of taking a forked lightening at level 1 from Rhasta, except his forked lightening comes back faster lol. so obviously forked lightening is imba right?
X marks the Spot. yanno, this reminds me a lot of fear. everyone in WoW thinks fear is imba cuz you run around stupid for a short amount of time. in actuality, it's a lot more balanced than a rogue jumping on you and stunning you until you're dead. what's mroe imba permabash troll or X marks the spot? hrm. this move actually helps you. the player is gunna do one of two things when they use X, theya re gunan chase you or wait for you to come back. if they wait, you've just ran away and gained some hp regen as he waited for you to get teled back, lol. if he chases, then there is no difference between this, and stun. none. if he was given a two second stun bolt you'd be meh, but no cuz it teles you back it's imba.plz. this doesn't even do what it's supposed to do and stop blinkers from getting away. just run instead of blinking when this happens, once it wears off blink away. the cool down on this is thirty seconds. if he can keep up with you for thirty seconds you were screwed anyways.
oh and venge's ult puts her in front of the enemy as they're runnign away, this doesn't. that can be a disadvantage in some situatiosn and an advantage in others. the x teleporting them back can be an advantage in some and a disadvantage in others. it's just like any other skill. also, keep in mind just cuz it's an ult doesn't mean it's an ultimate skill, it means it needs to be an ultimate skill for that hero. which is why this skill is a normal skill for him and a skill like it is an ult for vengeful.
lastly, I'm saying it's like certain abilities in comparison. not saying it's exactly the same. your example was horrible btw. those two abilities are very comparable. just like all the comparisons I've made.
honestly, stop holding on to your excuses of imba hero and start learning from your mistakes. I hope he doesn't get the nerf stick, he doesn't need it.
1. Torrent? SKILL SYNERGY. Learn it. Would Puck's Waning Rift be effective if he didn't have an ability to run in and cast it? Would Undying's Soul Rip be effective if he didn't have zombies to support? This can go on.
2. Tidehunter? Anchor Smash is 200 bonus damage on average 1/5 of attacks. Where did every single attack come from? Why would anybody get three Battlefuries on Admiral to get something he already has? That's wasting 13050 gold on something he has for free. I don't care about your math and the Forked Lightning comparison but here's the thing. Cleaved damage cannot be blocked or reduced. Tidebringer has 500 AoE. Tidebringer costs NO mana. Forked Lightning does.
3. Nobody has to wait with X Marks the Spot. You don't understand that you can Return people to the X without waiting the full duration. You get a "Return" function once you level up X Marks the Spot. Learn the game mechanics.
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thanks why don't we talk about how windrunner isn't imba then.
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kk i don't need to boost how big my post is by quoting everything you said lol.
I'll start with your biggest point, that the hero takes no timing.
so when i use x marks the spot, and then return. I'm not timing out 1.5 seconds? i'm a little confused. cuz i thought the whole thing with timing was timing how long something would take, and waiting 1.5 second, might just be me but that seems like timing.
I will agree there's major skill synergy. but he isn't the only one with major skill synergy. and it can be devastating to some heroes, other heroes not so much. lets think of some heroes right now that could easily take out mr.imba. Antimage, Riki, Pudge, techies, troll, luna, windrunner, rhasta, nerubian assassin, Sand king, trax, clinkz, bounty hunter, mortred, trax, krobelus, and I think I'll stop there. the point I'm making is he can be taken down, and with some heroes it's not even hard. rhasta for example. cyclone with eul's, serpent wards, shackle, voodoo, forked lightening, now he gets to do something but he's already dead.
even though you speak so much about mechanics in your post you forgot a lot of mechanics with ghost ship. one you only take 50% dmg during the buff, after the buff you take the 50% you didn't take during the buff. a lot of people forget this, so it's alright. two, ghost ship goes past where you click. so you gotta know how far past. and it's more than just the back of the ship ending where you aim. but I'll just assume you weren't talking about getting the crash on people, just getting the buff.
so if he ghost ships, misses the crash, but get's the torrent adn the x, well he's used all three of his spells, which one of them is an ult. If lina gets you with her two nukes and laguna blade you're pretty -bleep- there too right? so what's the big deal?
oh, I'm not even gunna talk about tide bringer, you're not willing to care about the math or that it's a forked lightening. then I'm not willing to care that you have an argument to make.
now, i have to give in to a point you made. his mana pool. two things i didn't realize. one, he has a 2.2 int gain. two, his spells don't increase in mana. I haven't played as him much, just against him. so i will agree that his mana pool is a lot higher than should be. i thought he only had the mana pool for one torrent or x marks the spot at the beginning (thinking the spells cost way more). So i think his int gain and spell cost need to be tweaked a bit. but i stick to my original opinion that his spells and abilities are not imba.
so witht hat here's what i think they should do to tweak.
mana should be at max 1 per level. any more and he's getting too much mana.
change x marks to spot to 200 mana and and have it stay at three seconds, each level decreases cooldown and increases range.
torrent should be more 150 mana and stay as it is.
ghost ship. I thought this cost way more than it does. change it to 300 mana and it's goo. by 6th level he should have just above 300 mana, so he can't just chain the triple combo together.
so ya, with mana in mind he needs tweaking, but the skilsl are pretty much just fine.
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Really, Proudmoore is mana dependent but he has practically none. Use the fact that if he messes up one part of the combo, it's all screwed.
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Ryno2112 wrote:
kk i don't need to boost how big my post is by quoting everything you said lol.
I'll start with your biggest point, that the hero takes no timing.
so when i use x marks the spot, and then return. I'm not timing out 1.5 seconds? i'm a little confused. cuz i thought the whole thing with timing was timing how long something would take, and waiting 1.5 second, might just be me but that seems like timing.
I will agree there's major skill synergy. but he isn't the only one with major skill synergy. and it can be devastating to some heroes, other heroes not so much. lets think of some heroes right now that could easily take out mr.imba. Antimage, Riki, Pudge, techies, troll, luna, windrunner, rhasta, nerubian assassin, Sand king, trax, clinkz, bounty hunter, mortred, trax, krobelus, and I think I'll stop there. the point I'm making is he can be taken down, and with some heroes it's not even hard. rhasta for example. cyclone with eul's, serpent wards, shackle, voodoo, forked lightening, now he gets to do something but he's already dead.
even though you speak so much about mechanics in your post you forgot a lot of mechanics with ghost ship. one you only take 50% dmg during the buff, after the buff you take the 50% you didn't take during the buff. a lot of people forget this, so it's alright. two, ghost ship goes past where you click. so you gotta know how far past. and it's more than just the back of the ship ending where you aim. but I'll just assume you weren't talking about getting the crash on people, just getting the buff.
so if he ghost ships, misses the crash, but get's the torrent adn the x, well he's used all three of his spells, which one of them is an ult. If lina gets you with her two nukes and laguna blade you're pretty -bleep- there too right? so what's the big deal?
oh, I'm not even gunna talk about tide bringer, you're not willing to care about the math or that it's a forked lightening. then I'm not willing to care that you have an argument to make.
now, i have to give in to a point you made. his mana pool. two things i didn't realize. one, he has a 2.2 int gain. two, his spells don't increase in mana. I haven't played as him much, just against him. so i will agree that his mana pool is a lot higher than should be. i thought he only had the mana pool for one torrent or x marks the spot at the beginning (thinking the spells cost way more). So i think his int gain and spell cost need to be tweaked a bit. but i stick to my original opinion that his spells and abilities are not imba.
so witht hat here's what i think they should do to tweak.
mana should be at max 1 per level. any more and he's getting too much mana.
change x marks to spot to 200 mana and and have it stay at three seconds, each level decreases cooldown and increases range.
torrent should be more 150 mana and stay as it is.
ghost ship. I thought this cost way more than it does. change it to 300 mana and it's goo. by 6th level he should have just above 300 mana, so he can't just chain the triple combo together.
so ya, with mana in mind he needs tweaking, but the skilsl are pretty much just fine.
kk i don't need to boost how big my post is by quoting everything you said lol.
I'll start with your biggest point, that the hero takes no timing.
so when i use x marks the spot, and then return. I'm not timing out 1.5 seconds? i'm a little confused. cuz i thought the whole thing with timing was timing how long something would take, and waiting 1.5 second, might just be me but that seems like timing.
I will agree there's major skill synergy. but he isn't the only one with major skill synergy. and it can be devastating to some heroes, other heroes not so much. lets think of some heroes right now that could easily take out mr.imba. Antimage, Riki, Pudge, techies, troll, luna, windrunner, rhasta, nerubian assassin, Sand king, trax, clinkz, bounty hunter, mortred, trax, krobelus, and I think I'll stop there. the point I'm making is he can be taken down, and with some heroes it's not even hard. rhasta for example. cyclone with eul's, serpent wards, shackle, voodoo, forked lightening, now he gets to do something but he's already dead.
even though you speak so much about mechanics in your post you forgot a lot of mechanics with ghost ship. one you only take 50% dmg during the buff, after the buff you take the 50% you didn't take during the buff. a lot of people forget this, so it's alright. two, ghost ship goes past where you click. so you gotta know how far past. and it's more than just the back of the ship ending where you aim. but I'll just assume you weren't talking about getting the crash on people, just getting the buff.
so if he ghost ships, misses the crash, but get's the torrent adn the x, well he's used all three of his spells, which one of them is an ult. If lina gets you with her two nukes and laguna blade you're pretty -bleep- there too right? so what's the big deal?
oh, I'm not even gunna talk about tide bringer, you're not willing to care about the math or that it's a forked lightening. then I'm not willing to care that you have an argument to make.
now, i have to give in to a point you made. his mana pool. two things i didn't realize. one, he has a 2.2 int gain. two, his spells don't increase in mana. I haven't played as him much, just against him. so i will agree that his mana pool is a lot higher than should be. i thought he only had the mana pool for one torrent or x marks the spot at the beginning (thinking the spells cost way more). So i think his int gain and spell cost need to be tweaked a bit. but i stick to my original opinion that his spells and abilities are not imba.
so witht hat here's what i think they should do to tweak.
mana should be at max 1 per level. any more and he's getting too much mana.
change x marks to spot to 200 mana and and have it stay at three seconds, each level decreases cooldown and increases range.
torrent should be more 150 mana and stay as it is.
ghost ship. I thought this cost way more than it does. change it to 300 mana and it's goo. by 6th level he should have just above 300 mana, so he can't just chain the triple combo together.
so ya, with mana in mind he needs tweaking, but the skilsl are pretty much just fine.
1. Timing 1.5-2 seconds is much easier than timing 5 seconds.
2. Who cares if you take full damage after Coco Rum is over? Enemies will be running. And after they see you Mark the X and Torrent they'll be running in what direction? They'll be running back in the exact same direction Ghost Ship is heading.
3. Lina doesn't have insane attack power like Admiral. Boo hoo all of his spells are on cooldown. Heroes like Admiral don't fully rely on skills like Lina. They have this thing called "normal attacks" that take no mana. He's also got Tidebringer.
4. Okay... Nerubian Assassin's combo is insanely powerful like Admiral's right now. Both of their hit combos round up near 1000 damage. I don't see NA's mana or int gain being nerfed. In fact he only has .1 less int gain per level than Admiral.
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Umm...just had a game against this guy..he was used by a friend of mine who knows the game mechanics well , and used him correctly with torrents and x marks the spot , timing it right, etc...
I was laned with him with Alchemist...and i destroyed him with my stun and gas. And my ulti took care of that splashing skill.
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