Which is Better, Two Bashers or Radiance?

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Radiance 48% [ 27 ]


Two Bashers 51% [ 29 ]

Posted: Mon May 28, 2007 7:37 am

I almost never get bashers, and if I DO, I only get one. Then get a hyperstone/bfly to increase the chance of bashing, then a buriza to kill 'em faster.

I love killing heroes using immolation, just keep on hitting until their HP is red then run alongside him. Those few seconds of feeling helpless and the thought of impending doom your enemy will feel before the immolation kills 'em is priceless. :p
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Posted: Mon May 28, 2007 7:37 am

Ok good, we can agree to that. Now who else in the team would hold Radiance besides tanks like Axe? Would everyone ELSE hold radiance? I've seen Pie-monger's guide to everyone, and everyone who is not a spell caster gets Radiance and BoT.

This makes no sense to me.

@rambol

I can agree that one basher is good enough at times. I can agree that one basher and Radiance is a good combo for tanks. I CANNOT agree that radiance is a superior DPS item to 2 bashers. I also cannot agree that radiance is better in a team capacity. I also cannot agree that one or two bashers are completely useless.

@Orochi

But, more than likely, if they choose to run, they have an escape mechanism, or a stun. Else, they'd probably go down fighting. Now a CHASER getting radiance is great. Balanar or BS with radiance is very nice.

BTW, I cannot delete my last post...
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Last edited by Greedygood on Mon May 28, 2007 7:41 am; edited 1 time in total

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Posted: Mon May 28, 2007 7:45 am

i deleted it.
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Posted: Mon May 28, 2007 7:48 am

@Greedygood
I did not say that bashers are useless. They are the best items in solo encounters, but in team battles, SMART enemies will NEVER let you get enough momentum to let you permabash one of them to death.
BTW to delete your post, edit it and look at one of the checkboxes below where you type your message
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Posted: Mon May 28, 2007 7:50 am



@caspian - I'd like to point out that Radiance is equally useless in the above situation (i.e., the VICTIM of this team of stunners would fare no better if he had radiance instead of bash). Although team make-up is a very interesting topic, it is well beyond the topic at hand.
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Last edited by Greedygood on Mon May 28, 2007 8:25 am; edited 1 time in total

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Posted: Mon May 28, 2007 7:52 am

Radiance on syllabear is useless, when you are entangled? When ppl just decide to bear-chase? And radiance is uselsss on the pain reflector tank Visage?

Consider a bear with bashers. Can he chase? You just said, radiance is great for chasing.

I don't want to force my opinions on yours, but i end with what rambol said, in sensible team games ppl are smart. This is reflected in the way they choose team lineups and the strategy of nuke chains.

If you like bashers so much in team games, get 2, own 5 heroes using twin bashers in a competitive-worthy game, save the replay, and show to us that u are right. Then i will shut up.
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Last edited by caspian on Mon May 28, 2007 8:05 am; edited 1 time in total

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Posted: Mon May 28, 2007 7:56 am

What rambol is saying that anyone relying on their normal attack will not be able to attack against a good team. Bash simply augments your normal attack. If you cannot attack, you will be owned with DPS/Radiance/Aegis/DR/whatever, including bash.

Sure, I can agree to that, but bash is still nice to have. What's wrong with getting bash AND dps? Then, you can kill the Centaur even in a relatively quick manner. Nothing wrong with that.

More important to this discussion, I don't see how radiance changes any of these scenarios.

I'd like to remind everyone that this discussion is NOT about whether or not bash is good as a stand-alone item, it is whether or not it SHOULD BE REPLACED WITH RADIANCE, or vice versa. All of your points are valid, and I agree with them, but they have nothing to do with this discussion!!!



Radiance is GREAT on syllabear's bear! It's a freaking tank. Bash is HORRIBLE on the bear, it already has something better (and may I point out that it's an uber-bash). This has been addressed. Please do not put words in my mouth. The point is that a basher against the TEAM OF STUNNERS that you mentioned would be equally ineffective if they had Radiance instead.

I also do not want to force my opinion on you, but I also think that equally smart players will opt for bash on certain heroes. I've seen people automatically demonize bash on ANYONE, and this makes no sense to me.
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Last edited by Greedygood on Mon May 28, 2007 8:27 am; edited 3 times in total

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Posted: Mon May 28, 2007 8:22 am

isn't there an X button at the end of your post?
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Posted: Mon May 28, 2007 8:26 am

Nope.

Oh, wait, I see it now. It's squished between "edit" and "report", and is not labeled. How did I miss that...?

Anyway, this has been rather interesting, but I must go, and will continue this another day.

Peace out!


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Posted: Mon May 28, 2007 8:45 am

i'll just go for the radiance..it gives u evasion and aoe damage
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Posted: Mon May 28, 2007 11:04 am

@Greedygood

I do agree with your statement regarding the fact that someone will just demonize Basher on all heros without any valid reasons. That sometimes do fustrate me alot.

Back to the topic, i still prefer Radiance then 2 Bashers. It's kind of hard to actually accurately compare the DPS output between 1 Radiance and 2 Bashers but I think we can use this simple summary with the assumption that we are comparing the above on a same hero with the same level and same skill, item build etc :
When fighting head-on 1on1, 2 basher will definitely provide a better DPS output than Radiance on high attack speed heros. But when during a team fight (where there is a lot of emenies), Radiance will indeed provide a better DPS output due to the AOE damage.

But if 2 Bahsers should be replaced with a Radiance, i should say the answer is "it's all depends on the hero you are using". Not all hero are meant to use Radiance. But Greedygood, i do have a suggestion; instead of comparing 2 Bashers, i recon to use 1 Basher + 1 Hyperstone. This total cost will be around the same as Radiance and will definitely provide a better DPS output than 2 Bashers.

Hope this helps. Peace.
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Posted: Mon May 28, 2007 11:30 am

I'd go for the bashers...
Anyway if the hero has bash get radiance
heroes like magina need at least 1 basher..

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The Conclusion!

Posted: Mon May 28, 2007 11:31 am

Well of course you all have arguments that are valid and strong BUT! unfortunatly you are both thinking back to the countless times that you got permabashed or got owned by the chaser with radience. THE ASNWER is that there is no answer! Every game you play will be completely different and there will always be an advantage of getting bash/radiance over eachother. The skill is in choosing when is the right time for which. I leave you with my infinate knowledge and this question.....

Why would an item be created that was good for every situation indefinatly???

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Posted: Mon May 28, 2007 12:00 pm

Well, that's what i'm trying to say actually.
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Posted: Mon May 28, 2007 10:40 pm



Ok, I can live with that. All I can say is that I wish more people were as level-headed about this. I've seen too many times where because "someone said so" is good enough for them to preach (i.e., someone said permabash can go too far in screwing your build, and someone else decided to preach that bash of any sort is the devil). I've read "Expert" opinions, and I do agree that sacrificing DPS for bash is not necessarily the smartest thing to do. But, this does not mean that even one basher is a waste, and more to the point, Radiance is not really a DPS alternative to Buriza or MKB IMHO. This has been quite interesting, and I thank everyone (so far) for their output.


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