Early game, Armour Vs Strength

Early game, Armour Vs Strength

Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 5:15 pm

Obviously armour/strength is better for some heros when first leaving the base, but to what extent is armour/strength better as to max out your EHP?

Obviously against non physical dmg dealers, strength is better BUT lets say you want to max out your EHP for the amount of money you have, nont taking into consideration, building mid game items or magic nukers. What would be the point at which armour or strength is better to get to maximise your EHP for the amount of money you have, and for wat heros.

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Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 7:56 am

Low HP heroes need HP.
High HP heroes need armor.

HP should always be prioritized above armor. Only when you have an acceptable HP should you get more armor.

Examples:
N'aix has tons of armor, but he needs HP.
Centaur has tons of HP, but he needs Armor.
Knight Davion has a balance of HP and Armor, get damage items instead lol
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Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 8:46 am

Yeah.Do the thing Yuki told ya!
Low HP heroes HP itemz.Low armor-Armor itemz..

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Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 8:51 am

Yeah, I agree. Put balance on armor and HP to fully maximize the potential of the hero. ^^,
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Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 10:48 am

what about morphling??

he can reach as low as 139 hp, but high armor, should he get hp or lifesteal??

but I recommend what yuki said, and also add lifesteal to low hp DPS heroes
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Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 10:54 am

TheRe Ya Go!!!
^_^
YuKiNo's
SuGgeStiOn WaS So RiGht!!!
EvEn YOu HaVe The HiGh HP, You StILL HaVe To PuT Some ArMor To YouR Unit..
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Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 11:17 am

@ Genso
Armor without HP is useless, especially against chain-combo heroes [Dagon + Laguna whatever..]
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Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 11:19 am

Well maybe we should put on Hood of Defiance to lower the effects of spells. ^^,
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Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 11:22 am

Hmm.Morphling with 139 HP.With HoD,With lotsa armor VS Laguna blade 2xdagon5 and Finger of death.He will survive for sure!

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Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 11:24 am

@ Eustace
Hahaha. Oh lawd. Even Dagon 1 can kill a 139 HP Morphling. It will deal 210 damage, counting spell resistance.
Heck. Atropos can just cast Brain Sap and pwn morph.
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Last edited by yukino_silvermaine on Sun Jun 24, 2007 11:28 am; edited 1 time in total

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Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 11:26 am

@Yuki YY.I know.Cuz canas24 said that if he buys HoD he will reduce magic damage or something...That's why a gave that example:Dagon5.

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Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 11:30 am


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Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 11:32 am

OMG."he will survive for sure"Is that better?Of course he won't survive.I should have put " ut anyway...

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Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 11:40 am

Let compare between this two comparison for the answer!! Even though we have no aegis anymore.

Aegis of the Immortal
vs.
Heart of Tarrasque


25% natural resistance and 35% from Aegis:
1 - ( 1 - 0.25 ) * ( 1 - 0.35 ) = 51.25% Spell Reduction

Heart = 300+35str*19hp = 965hps +11regen per/sec + .03*35 = 12.05hp regen per sec

Lvl 25 Doom w/ Aegis: 2468hp and 51.25% spell reduction
Lvl 25 Doom w/ Heart: 3433hp and 25% spell reduction
How many 300dmg nukes could each item handle?

300*.75 = 225dmg = Dmg per nuke vs. Heart: 3433/225 = 15.25778 nukes
300*.4875 = 146.25 = Dmg per nuke vs. Aegis: 2468/146.25 = 16.87 nukes

16.67 - 15.25778 = 1.6174 nukes difference * 225dmg = 363.9225 - Can Heart regen this much hp by the time you've been nuked 15-17 times? That all depends on how many heroes are nuking, and how powerful their nukes are. When it comes to if Heart can regen this, the answer is probably yes, if they come in slowly, but this is no drastic difference.

However, the +10 armor from Aegis has not even been calculated yet, nor have the 3 Revive charges been valued. Some nukes do have to bypass armor %'s when calculating their damage dealt. Of course normal blows from attacks, creeps, and towers will be significantly reduced with 10 extra armor. Here are the differences in armor calculations. For every 1 point of armor, 6% more physical damage is required to kill that unit.

Lvl 25 Doom w/ Aegis: (2468hp * 18.8 armor * .06) + 2438 = 5251.904 required physical damage to kill Doom.
Lvl 25 Doom w/ Heart: (3433hp * 8.8 armor * .06) + 3433 = 5245.624 required physical damage to kill Doom.
The difference is 6.28 dmg in Aegis' favor--hardly a difference.

So, damage differences are nearly equal.
Would you rather have 3 instant revives or 12hp/sec regen?
Let's see what is 3+1 x 2468hps...
9872ehp must be taken down in order to finally kill Doom with Aegis
12hp per sec for your 20-30 second battles or a shot of 7404 extra hps, hrmmm.

By the time you reach Aegis in my build, pushing/defense should be underway. You are taking heavy damage quickly, and the Regen bonus from HoT is not pulling its weight. Also, since you have BoT, you can push, afford a death, and get right back into the battle. Teleportation + 3 instant revives are crucial to winning the game when it comes down to full team effort pushes. The only other aspect HoT offers is +35dmg, since Doom is a strength hero. 3 safe deaths (keep all your gold, and don't give any to the opposing team) is greater in my book than 35 extra damage that Doom really does not notice. He is a lethal/mobile disabler/nuker and tank. His aggressive presence is solidified by his ability to disable opponent's offensive, take the little beating they can dish without skills/spells, and send them on the run.
To top it all off, let's simply compare the price of HoT to Aegis.
Heart of Tarrasque = 5500g (needing to reach a 3200g level for the most expensive and useful piece)
Aegis of the Immortal = 4050g (needing to reach a 2000g level for the most expensive piece, which is a recipe)
Initial amount saved: 1450g ... + 3 death's worth of gold. This could be around 1350-2250g (lvls 15-25).
Gold loss per Death = Current Lvl * 30. I multiplied these numbers times 3 deaths.
You could also prevent the enemy hero(s) that kill you on their team from getting anywhere from 540-1890g.
Bounties for Deaths = 105 + (X * 5) + 50 * (Y - 2) where X is the killed hero's level, and Y is the number of kills in a spree.
A spree is 3 or more kills in a row without dying. Extra bounty gold is gained for killing a hero on a spree. The maximum bonus gold you can get is 400 (hero was on a spree with 10 kills or more without dying). This 400g * 3 on a lvl 25 hero gives you the maximum gold fed to the enemy team of 1890g. Granted, this is very unlikely, as it would mean having a "Beyond Godlike" (10+spree) in between each death. Yet, it is quite likely that Doom at this point is on a high killing spree, and you never want to feed the enemy 500-600 gold with one kill. This can easily give that team the momentum to come back. Of course, I'm sure that your pricey HoT is the safer bet.
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Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 11:43 am

@ Arcthas
I appreciate that post.. Though it would have been better if it were HoT vs Plate Mail + Defiance
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