Basic game tactics.

Basic game tactics.

Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 3:53 pm

One thing I, like most noobs, have trouble with is the basic attack strategy, and what i would call the very extreme basics and fundamentals of warcraft and dota.

i mean, even if you know how to use spells, there is a particular way of playing a hero, depending on whther its a melee or ranged hero.all most of us talk about his the item build, the skill build, the choce of hero and the opponents, assuming everone presentknows full how to play a hero apart from the stuff i mentioned there.theres such a thing as basic game tactics, that make the differene between a noob and a pro using the same hero, skill build, items, etc/ as in when to come in the middle of your creep mob, when to stay out of the brawl. it matters a lot whatever hero, item build and skill build you are using. what hotkeys other than those of skills that your fingertips should always look for on the keyboard. what heroes can goa and tank blindly and which ones should carefully avoid damage, and how?
i asked people at a gaming zone bout this once, and they told me it was called skill and it came with experience. all im looking for is the basic philosophy behind when to retreat and when to attack.

provided i get the kind of reply im looking for, this topic might prove worthy of being stickied, as it could really be worth a noob's time to flip thru this instead of all the strategies that the knowledgable members of the site came up with. thnx in advance everone....
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Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 4:43 pm

Well in a team game

I retreat...

1. I retreat if told by our team leader to do so to either save our skins or lure the enemy to a more suitable/strategic location to pummel them to bits.

2. If I am heavily outnumbered mostly when my team is decimated and only 1 to 2 of us our left to fight 4 to 5 equal to higher leveled heroes.

3. I go around in circles in my tower to either let the tower kill him, wait for my skill to cool down to finish him off, or stall till back up arrives.

4. We also retreat when it smells like a trap that or we saw them coming a mile away since we place observer wards in key places.

5. When you’re alone and heavily outnumbered without any back-up whatsoever and still have the chance to run like a panzy.

I attack

1. I stand my ground and fight when there is no chance of escape to at least soften up the enemy for my other teammates

2. I stand my ground and fight knowing that help is on the way and a 25% chance I still live.

3. I blink to the enemy like an insane madman and cast every skill I got, preferably AOE, knowing I will die but will cause enough damage for my team to finish them all off or to save our tower from destruction.

4. I trust my team and even when we loose we type out for all players to see "Till DEATH!!!", "WE DIE WITH HONOR!!!, etc" and we charge liike there was no tomorrow to our very doom. Somehow it has become an amusing tradition.^^ < number four is not a strategy just pure...can't say insanity since its just a game^^

5. We fight knowing there is a big chance some of us will die but at least destroy the enemy’s tower. Main rule here some not all.

6. If you are like clinx who has a lot of damage potential yet has horrid hp. I only attack/pop-up when the enemy is wounded to finish off or give chase then take him out. That or I just pop-up knowing that it’s so chaotic there’s a chance they won’t notice me attacking them. Or like Crystal maiden where I wait in the sidelines and only blink/bkb and use freezing field as a finishing move or softener after my teammates charge in first in.

But if you are playing in pubs/some lan games were the word teamwork barely exist. My basic philosophy is
"Follow your gut instincts/woman intuition since that's all you got."
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Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 3:39 am

hmmmmm.....,
gut instincts/woman intuition huh? any idea where i can buy some of those? just kidding, man...

thnx a lot, nova, your guide is simply fantasic, and you've already made the topic worthy of the sticky tag, but its a guide for players who usually go 4 on 4, or 5 on 5.
in my gaming zone, due to lack of players, our games seldom go beyond 3 on 3. its mostly 2 on 2 or solo.
what the enemies do is pick nasty dsiabling heroes and gank the most skilled players, and let the other one walk away scot-free. thus, the one with the potential to do something for his team remains heavily underleveled and short of funds.

see, what i was looking for is something even more basic, like standing back, attackin creeps from a good location, etc. please read the first post more carefully. but thnx a lot anyway.

plus, since ou mentioned it, can anyone get a map an tell me what the strategic locations for observer wards are?
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Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 6:31 am

My bad^^

Anyway I have updated and posted screenshots on some of the basic observer ward placement in my sticky "How to stop neutral creeping/ganking"

Can't really give any advise in 3on3 battles since I rarely played one but I am a 1on1 ap nut...I always pick first^^
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Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 9:40 am

Most of the time.. I see noobs are too greedy.. Chasing a dying hero when they are good as dead too. They go past thier own creeps and go towards the enemy creeps. Naturally, they will kill the hero.
*shrug*

Noobs also don't know how to "save" for the good items. They immediately go for the level 4 recipe items. In 1 on 1 games, I see players buy uber expensive items and neglect bracers/Wraith bands/Null talismans, regen items, etc. It's not a good idea IMHO.
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Last edited by yukino_silvermaine on Sun Oct 01, 2006 12:12 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 11:59 am

So true...but even pros are greedy. Being too cocky can kill you. Just because ones a pro doesn't mean you'll live to kill for it^^ As for me I have a bad habit of farming too much if left unsupervised^^

Ah yes when it comes to 1on1 I have seen a lot of people buy dagon early.
What is it with players and there love for a dagon early.

Hmmm...I am a bit confused when you say always going for the level 1 items. By that do you mean filling the whole slot with Wraith bands, bracers and stuff like that???
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Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 12:13 pm


Me too.
^_^

I laugh at people who get dagon immediately. They don't realize they only deal 300 damage with it but drains their manapool.

My mistake, it's level 4 item recipes.
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Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:33 am

I've also learned the hard way that even if you have lots of money, skipping the basic items will hurt you eventually.

Going for a powerful damage item early is bad, as you neglect every hero's main trait: that you are very very weak in the early game.

So what I do is, on 1vs1 or 2vs2, buy a combination of Bracers/Wrath Band/Null Talisman, depending on the hero. With those two items, you know that you have the edge on stats. Then buy a Boots. If there's spare cash, you can buy a Ring of Regen. Buying a Ring of Health early is also not optimal, as you sacrifice again the chance of getting Bracers/Wraiths/Nulls. Having the edge on stats early game means more time on your lane, less chance of dying pointlessly, and more chances to last hit, since you have increased your base damage to +9 or +12.

As for chasing heroes, never tower chase during the early stages of the game. Even if you kill the enemy, it's worthless if you get yourself killed as well. You lose gold, and you also miss out on exp and more gold.

We're a bunch of noobs in my group too, so we don't use Observer Wards. Using it would require more team strategy.

Another tip is to always look at your minimap, to check hero positions. You never know when there's a lone hero with less than 1/4 HP that's still farming, so if you think you're capable of killing him, then go for it. But also be wary of other enemy heroes that might do that to you.

In light of that, it's generally a good idea to not cross the river during the early stages of the game. This is because you get closer to the enemy tower, which means that you are accesible to enemy heroes. When you've farmed and helped your creeps get past the river, go back to your tower. Then think if you can farm neutrals, and still have the time to go back to your tower to defend it should an enemy hero attack it. This is very effective to keep the cash flowing, although don't farm neutrals if your HP is in the red.

Denying is harder to do than most normal things like attacking and casting spells. Even I suck at it. But practice makes perfect. Also, denying becomes pointless in the mid-game, because you're busy defending your tower, or pushing against one.

Last-hitting is easily resolved by stat-increasing items such as Circlets or Bracer/Wraith/Null. Some also buy Ironwood Branches if they have extra cash just for the stat increase, but these things happen mostly in 4vs4 or 5vs5. Also, Flasks/Tangos are very much needed early, even if you think you won't be damaged enough because you're ranged, since you'll never really know if enemy heroes will harass you or not.

I think the only "high-level" item that's really worth it is Vanguard, as it's effectiveness shines in the early to mid game. But don't forget that you need stats too. Vanguard is mostly effective on melee heroes and tanks, but not really for everyone.

So I think I'll shut up now coz my fingers hurt and this post is too long already.
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Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:55 am

That's a nice post there Garfield.
One more thing about the minimap. Always check if there are missing heroes, especially when you have crossed the river. Most of the time they're goinf for a gank. So it's a good idea to retreat and go back to the other side of the river.
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Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:25 am

one thing to avoid...
greediness...

(my only sickness...)

things to do... always
observe...
know your enemy hero and your hero abilities
stand and fight as much as possible (i mean if you have enough life) on a
1 on 1 situation...
retreat if needed...
avoid places that have too many hero

wala lang...
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Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:28 am

whoa! long posts merit long replies, it seems.
well, this ones not going to, but i think drew should make this a sticky now!
and @garifeld, i love vanguard, too!
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Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:37 am

Drew's not *yet* here..
So..

Stickied.
Also..
Some rules for this thread:
1] No asking for item builds/skill builds/etc. for heroes.
2] No replies like "Yeah that's right" or something similar, but comments that add more info to the previous posts ("Agree, but sometimes blah blah for this blah blah..") are allowed.
^_^

If you have any more tactics/suggestions just post them here!
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Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 1:51 pm

First I would like to emphasize some things you can type to warn your allies.

When you notice some of your teammates dying constantly by charging into the enemy thinking as if they have the whoseyourdaddy cheat enabled due to greediness/cockiness.

"(Insert name or hero) Don't be a HERO!!!" < The irony
"(Insert name or hero) You're not RAMBO!!!"
It sometimes works...maybe the correct word is rarely but what the heck I just type to at least get some amusement from him

Also when you do notice that there are 1 to 2 or no heroes on the minimap don't be lazy and type "missing all" or "(no.) missing".

Also try to use the ! warning button (forgot name) either to warn/show the current location of an enemy hero or the current path of the hero and type in the heroes name.

It would be best to also have some lane control by that I mean having the clashes of the creep waves near your tower to lessen the chances of ganks.

You can either...

1. Block the path of your own creeps even for just a second. Trust me it helps.
2. If you’re still not good with denying just hit your own creeps when they are already hittable just not to the extent the enemy get an easy 1 hitter. For me I try to hit my own creeps life points and deny.
3. Last but not least just last hit for the kill even when you're range.

Practice makes perfect or at least try^^
Oh and an observer ward is worth avoiding a thousand deaths to you and your teammates. Plus you lose a lot more time, experience and gold when you die.

To be honest the more people use observer wards the unhappier I become because its a sign that teams are getting a lot smarter^^ May we not cross paths to does who listen to my advise and use observer wards for I may be defeated by my own advise...which in terms of irony...sucks^^
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Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 2:43 pm

@nova, the "!" is called minimap signal.
speaking of the rambo thing you were talking about, i think all noobs have been rambos in their day!

oh, and basic buy for any hero , (alteast what i always do):

> Empty bottle
> boots of speed (upgrade to power treads if you aren't short of cash)
> headdress of rejuvenation

use the empty bottle effectively, and keep it full as long as possible. the empty bottle heal is also removed on attack, so stay out of the way of enemies when using this.
to heal ultra-fast, go to your ffountain, fill up, use all 3 charges as soon as the one before it finishes, and repeat this how many ever times, then refill to full, and then go out to battle.
also, use double damage runes carefully, implement it only once you have started attacking the tower or hero. never while you are still in travel.
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Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 3:19 pm

Yes, signals are very important in games. I always type "wag masyado bayani" when one of my teammates goes tower chasing or goes to fight more than one hero. Typing "help" is also a quick way to alert your teammates. But mostly in LAN games you could always shout it out loud. "Andami dito sa kaliwa!" Communication is a very important tool.

Press Alt+Left Click on your screen or the minimap to do the map alert.

As for Empty Bottles, I have yet to use them.
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