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The Butterfly/The Assault Cuirass.

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WhyIsLife


First Blood Posts: 12 Joined: 05 Sep 2007 486 gold

The Butterfly/The Assault Cuirass.

Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 12:28 pm

My ultimate point is this:
Many people buy the assault cuirass when the butterfly would be more appropriate.


I will state the cases where I concede the the Assault Currass is a better item and when I think the butterfly is a better item.

For referance:

Butterfly:
6000 Gold

30 Damage** (60 damage on an agility)
60 Attack Speed
30 Evasion
4.1 Armor (30/0.14)

Assault Cuirass:
6120

0 Damage
55 Attack Speed
15 Armor
-5 Armor aura

I have done my homework here:

Let's treat the attack speed as equal.
Let's treat the price as equal.
I'm going to treat the butterfly as an item on a NON-agility hero.

---------------------------------------
SURVIVABILITY

In terms of EHP enhancement, butterfly offers 4.1 armor and 30% evasion vs the 15 armor of the Assault Currass.

For a hero with 0 armor:

The AC offers 47% damage reduction.
The Butterfly offers 43.65% damage reduction.*

*[(4 armor) - 19.5% damage reduction + 30% evasion. Therefore the butterfly offers (30+(19.5%of70)% damage reduction = 43.65% damage reduction]

For a hero with 10 armor already (37% damage reduction):

The AC offers 60% total damage reduction.
The Butterfly offers 61.65 damage reduction

*[(14 armor) - 45% damage reduction + 30% evasion.
Therefore the butterfly offers (30+(45%of70)% damage reduction = 61.65 damage reduction.

MY POINT: At 10 armor or any higher, the Butterfly offers a higher survivability. And it obviously going to be late game when people can buy a 6k item. As the game goes further and further on, the butterfly will become more and more effective than the AC as a survivability item.

------------------------------------
DAMAGE INCREASE

Let's assume (like above) that during this period of the game, a hero will have 10 armor (0.375 damage reduction).

Now, the 5 armor reduction reduces their armor to 5, or 23% damage reduction, thereby increasing the potency what your attack would otherwise be by 123%.**

**[The calculation of (100-23)/(100-37.5)]

So, lets assume your hero deals 120 damage (outside the butterfly/AC) and he is fighting against a hero with 10 armor.

With AC he would deal ((100-23)% of 120 damage)
= 92.4 damage.
With Butterfly he would deal ((100-37.5)% of 120+30 damage)
= 100 damage.

Now I am sure you are thinking, 'later on in the game, people have higher damage per attack and the amplification of AC rather than point increase in damage of Butterfly becomes more valuable'. - However, I would like to point out that the armor reduction becomes simply less effective as armor gets higher (20 armor - 5 armor is a lot less crippling that 10 armor - 5 armor).

So I will simulate the same with 20 armor on the victim hero and 200 damage (or 230 damage with the butterfly).

With AC he would deal ((100-47)% of 200 damage)
= 106 damage
With Butterfly he would deal ((100-54)% of 230 damage)
= 105 damage

I will concede now that at this point, and any later in the game, the AC becomes a better DamagePerAttack item on any non-agility hero.

(On an agility hero the Butterfly almost always remains a better DamagePerAttack item - [outside cases of a DK with Shiva's, A plate mail and his own AC] - but that's off the point).

--------------------------------------
CASES OF USE ON BOTH ITEMS:

Now I will highlight the occasions when someone should use either item.

Butterfly is appropriate when:
- You have an agility hero
(With the exception of Darkterror and Mortred who have a natural evasion).
- Your hero has armor higher than 11/12.
- You have low natural damage.

AC is appropriate when:
- Your hero has has an armor reducing spell.
(Such as Slardar's amplify damage, Tidehunter's Gush) or is carrying the Stygian Desolator.
- Your hero has less than 7/8 armor.
- Your hero has summons (Furion or Visage).

ONE LAST NOTE:
Construction of the assault cuirass is easier as it comes in 4 pieces of 620, 1400, 2000, 2100 than the butterfly which is 900, 1800 and 3300.
One must note on the other hand that the assault currass leaves with only 3 slots during the building (and I'm a huge fan of filling all the slots with all sorts of items0.

More heroes fall into the butterfly category.
(EG I was scolded the other day for buying butterfly rather than assault cuirass on Pit Lord, when - due to reasons above - it was way more appropriate).

-------------------------

Finally, please appreciate how much effort I have put into writing this and it's really annoying for everyone when some writes an one liner with AnNoYiNg AlTeRanT\aTe TpyinG nad BAd SepllInG.

lol, thanks for reading.

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TonyDurst


First Blood Posts: 4 Joined: 18 Jun 2008 123 gold

Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 12:46 pm

AC offers a percentage boost to ur attack speed along with a Atk speed aura. I dont think your figures work out correctly. The atk speed from ac could smash the atk speed from butterfly based on other items in ur inventory.

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sfsy1


Beyond Godlike Posts: 2992 Joined: 08 Sep 2007 86856 gold

Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 12:49 pm

2 things. AC helps allies, and decreases all enemies' armor.
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KingV


Monster Kill Posts: 346 Joined: 18 May 2008 8871 gold

Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 1:06 pm

I know from some excruciating experiences that you can't rely an a 30% chance. Sometimes evasion procs 5 times in a row, and sometimes it procs once every 6 hits.
I'm better of with the good ol' armor gain.
That doesn't mean i don't ever buy butter. On some heroes it synergizes with their skills so....
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earth stony


Monster Kill Posts: 275 Joined: 12 Feb 2008 9227 gold

Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 1:15 pm

I like AC more...
Sucking armor gain...
And decreasing armor of enemy
AND
40% attck speed increase... And 15% attackspeed aura... Jus like supporting ur allies...
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ancis000


Mega Kill Posts: 571 Joined: 10 Feb 2008 16008 gold

Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 1:18 pm

i think it depends on the game
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[piG]Jenan


Warnings : 2 Beyond Godlike Posts: 2685 Joined: 30 Nov 2007 70394 gold

Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 1:20 pm

AC makes enmy paper like.
pls understand.
^^,
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swordblitz


First Blood Posts: 32 Joined: 20 Jun 2008 963 gold

Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 1:23 pm

i like butterfly more. the item looks cooler Very Happy

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coco616


Warnings : 2 Godlike Posts: 1387 Joined: 19 Jul 2007 15044 gold

Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 1:27 pm

Good point.

Left out how AC helps ALL Allies nearby and makes ALL nearby enemies weaker
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Bishounen2k8


Warnings : 1 Godlike Posts: 1742 Joined: 08 Jan 2008 48915 gold

Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 10:27 pm

So AC is more of beneficiary to both the user and his team mates,

Butterfly is to best to carry heroes and agi heroes,

.like what you discussed,

well done,
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tiberiumlord


Godlike Posts: 1116 Joined: 06 Jul 2007 28032 gold

Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 10:53 pm

It always depends on the game and hero ur playing. Personally, I take AC over Butter, but then, it's always situational.
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Bishounen2k8


Warnings : 1 Godlike Posts: 1742 Joined: 08 Jan 2008 48915 gold

Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 11:08 pm

I use AC for most STR heroes,

dish out and take in damage, . .

Butterfly for agi,

give out and evade damage, ..

.
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getatmedog


Godlike Posts: 1364 Joined: 24 Jan 2008 21232 gold

Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 11:37 pm

I thought that Evasion was different than backtrack for Darkterror so the two would stack diminishingly?? maybe Im wrong. I like your thought process but like everyone has said AC is a team building item. The numbers would be far different if you counted the changed to all allies and enemies. Your description is valid only for one on one encounters in the woods. Still, good effort.
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Aleu


Monster Kill Posts: 300 Joined: 25 Aug 2008 34724 gold

Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 12:11 am

Butterfly for single hero killing, AC for pushing.
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fwii~


R.I.P. Chris Benoit 1967-2007
Chambermaid Posts: 2150 Joined: 18 Jan 2007 63470 gold

Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:26 am

I only get Butterfly for Agi heroes and I only get assault on non-agi heroes that's always been my principle. The 30% evasion isn't that bad based on personal experience, it makes a huge difference when fighting heroes like ursa but it's quite useless when you are dealing with Nukes.

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