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Magic Spell's Weaknesses and Counters

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quale


Monster Kill Posts: 451 Joined: 13 Aug 2007 gold

Magic Spell's Weaknesses and Counters

Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 12:01 pm

Most heroes, especially intelligence-type, uses spells that deals magical damage. Nukers are the top among those that inflicts high damaging spells that players abuses to cause harassment and instant kill.

As we learn the spells of our heroes that deals magical damage, we must also understand it's weaknesses and counters. Magical damage is reduced by spell resistance. Enemies can also block these by spell immunity and sometimes Linken Sphere. Lastly, heroes can be stop from casting spells by Silence or mana drain.


SPELL RESISTANCE

All heroes have an innate magic reduction of 25%. This means, whenever you cast a spell against an enemy hero, the enemy hero will not receive all the damage. 25% of the damage will be negated or subtracted. Example:
    As Lion, you used a level 3 Finger of Death to an enemy...
    Expected damage = 850
    25% of 850 is (850 x 0.25) = 212.5
    850 - 212.5 = 637.5 ~ 638
    Real damage = 638

This is the sad truth. You expect that the damage of your level 3 Finger of Death is 850, but in reality the enemy will only receive 638 damage. On the other hand, neutral and enemy creeps have no spell resistance.

The worst is yet to come. There are items that your enemies can buy to further increase their spell resistance. These are:
Hood of Defiance adds 30% spell resistance and Planewalker's Cloak adds 15%. Hood of Defiance don't stack with Planewalker's Cloak nor to another Hood of Defiance. The same goes to Planewalker's Cloak. Some heroes has their own skill that will also increase their spell resistance. These heroes are:

Viper's Corrosive Skin adds 5/10/15/20% magic reduction, Magina's Spell Shield adds 10/20/30/40%, Azwraith's Phantom Edge adds 10/15/20%, Pudge's Flesh Heap adds 4/8/12/16%. Meanwhile, Level 1 and 2 of Visage's Revenants has 33% spell resistance. If a hero has a skill and item that adds spell resistance, all these will stack with diminishing return. Here is the formula:
    Total spell resistance = 1 - ((1 - A) x (1 - B) x (1 - C)...)
    where: A, B, C = spell resistance in decimals

I also feel dizzy with formulas so please bear with me. Let's get an example:
    Magina has a level 4 Spell Shield and carries a Hood of Defiance...
    Total spell resistance = 1 - ((1 - 25%) x (1 - 40%) x (1 - 30%))
    Total spell resistance = 1 - ((1 - 0.25) x (1 - 0.40) x (1 - 0.30))
    Total spell resistance = 1 - ((0.75) x (0.6) x (0.7))
    Total spell resistance = 1 - 0.315
    Total spell resistance = 0.685 or 68.5% or 69%

Imagine that, a hero with 69% spell resistance? He'll just laugh at the damage of any nukes. These opponents are hard to kill by spell casters, but not impossible. Usually, players will only buy items with spell resistance if the opposing team has 2 or more ruthless nukers. But anyway, it's not a big problem for your team. If you have a teammate that has huge damage per second (DPS), spell resistance will not save your enemies!


SPELL IMMUNITY

From the word immune, it means resisted or protected. Enemy heroes under spell immunity will receive zero damage to any spells that deals magical damage. Here is an item you need to check:

Black King Bar's Avatar can make your opponent magic immuned for 9 seconds. Meanwhile, here are the heroes you need to be aware of:

Naix's Rage can make him magic immuned for 2.5/3.25/4/4.75 seconds while Omniknight's Repel is 5/10/15/20 seconds. Some units are permanently magic immuned, here they are:
  1. Visage's Revenant
  2. Rhasta's Serpent Ward
  3. Venomancer's Poison Ward
  4. Flying Couriers
  5. Roshan
  6. Black Dragons
  7. Granite Golems
  8. Rock Golems
  9. Mud Golems
  10. Elder Jungle Stalkers

Spellcasters can't do anything against spell immuned enemies, except of course start attacking physically out of desperation. What you can do is wait for the duration of spell immunity to end. If you're Gorgon or if you have Diffusal Blade, use Purge to remove the magic immunity.


SPELL BLOCK

When your spell requires selecting a target, then this item can get in your way:

Linken's Sphere has Spell Negation that can block any harmful targeted hardcoded spell cast on the bearer. One spell every 20 seconds though. Linken's Sphere can also block spells that deals AoE damage. Such as Lunar Eclipse of Luna Moonfang, Thundergod's Wrath of Zeus, Overgrowth of Rooftrellen, and there are other more. Sorry I can't mention them all here as stating all spells that Linken's Sphere can block is another big guide.

To put their spell block to waste, use any spell that will trigger it. Usually spell that has low mana cost and low cooldown. Once the spell block is on cooldown, start striking your other spells especially nasty nukes.


SILENCE

If a hero is silenced, he's not allowed to cast spells except items. What a bummer. One item that can do this is:

Orchid Malevolence's Soul Burn will silence a hero and make him more fragile for 5 seconds. Some heroes has also their own skill of silence, they are:


Both Traxex's and Krobelus' Silence has a duration of 3/4/5/6 seconds. Puck's Waning Rift will silence his enemies within his 400 AoE for 0.1/1/2/3 seconds. Lucifer's Doom will also silence his victim for 12/14/16 seconds, Strygwyr's Bloodrage for 6/9/12/15 seconds and Balanar's Crippling Fear for 5/6/7/8 seconds (night) or 3 seconds (day). Rikimaru has Smoke Screen that will silence his enemies within it's 250/275/300/325 AoE (6 seconds duration)

ortrom's Last Word will silence you for 1/2/3/4 seconds and Global Silence is 3/4/5 seconds. Nortrom's Last Word will only work if he's not silenced and if you're within his 700 AoE. So if you use a global spell, as long as you're not in his AoE then you're safe. Also, if you cancel your cast backswing, you won't get silenced.

Purge is the only way to remove this curse, or you can just wait until the effect fades.


MANA DRAIN

Spellcasters and especially nukers relies to their mana so much. Some enemies will take advantage by draining it away. With low mana, they won't be able to cast spell. These are the items that can drain your mana:

Diffusal Blade has the passive ability called Feedback that will burn 18 of your MP everytime your enemy attack you with it, then Manta Style is the upgraded item that inherits Feedback burning 36 MP with every attack. Melee images that uses items with Feedback can burn your mana, but ranged are not. With Necronomicon, a player can summon the Necronomicon Warrior and Archer every 90 seconds. The Necronomicon Warrior has Mana Drain that will burn 25/50/75 of your MP while the Necronomicon Archer has Mana Burn that will instantly drain 125/175/225 MP (60 seconds cooldown). These heroes can also drain mana:

Magina's Mana Break can burn 16/32/48/64 MP on each of his attack. Anub'arak has Mana Burn that has 7 seconds of cooldown can take away 70/120/185/260 MP in an instant. Pugna's Nether Ward will give -150/-300/-450/-600% MP regen on it's insane 1600 AoE. Ezalor can cast Mana Leak that will remove 20/40/60/80% of the heroes' remaining MP everytime they cast a spell (22 seconds duration). Kael's EMP after detonation will burn 100/150/200/250/300/350/400 MP in it's 700 AoE. Lion can cast to your hero Mana Drain that will drain 20/40/60/100 MP per second for a duration of 4 seconds.

These guys are irritating. Make them taste all your nukes before they can even drain your mana.


UPDATE

Based on DotA 6.54b map.
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Feel free to post corrections and even suggestions.
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ABOUT MAGICAL DAMAGE
SENTINEL VS. SCOURGE


Last edited by quale on Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:38 am; edited 9 times in total


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KingV


Monster Kill Posts: 229 Joined: 18 May 2008 gold

Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 12:08 pm

Thank you for the "refresh" Very Happy
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Bishounen2k8


Warnings : 1 Godlike Posts: 1634 Joined: 08 Jan 2008 gold

Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 12:19 pm

How about diffusal and purge?


.
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kavgaci


Dominating Posts: 146 Joined: 04 Jan 2008 gold

Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 8:48 pm

Lion and his mana drain ?
Lich and his mana thingo but not for heroes ?

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nicholasni


Dominating Posts: 120 Joined: 29 Mar 2008 gold

Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 8:58 pm

very helpful.

good to learn new things, never knew you had 25% magic shield. that sux Sad
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Vakma


Monster Kill Posts: 278 Joined: 20 Jan 2008 gold

Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 9:01 pm

Until an moth ago i thought that youre armor deducts the spell dmg...(you have 15 armor and 50% dmg reduction then you get 150 spell dmg insead of 300 dmg,that's what i thought)
So it's realy usefull even for someone that has played for some time

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pencilpusher


Monster Kill Posts: 295 Joined: 06 Mar 2007 gold

Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 9:05 pm

yeah, *bows in respect* thanks alot.

1 more q, do 2 palnewalker's cloak stack?
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moogle-taxi


Warnings : 1 Godlike Posts: 1433 Joined: 14 Jan 2008 gold

Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 9:24 pm

planewalkers claok do not stack.
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folechno


Warnings : 1 Godlike Posts: 1878 Joined: 09 Dec 2007 gold

Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 9:55 pm

this will be linked in my Lina guide when I update it, nice job and a much better layout than the other thread in the Library (yep, I think it's going there and you intentionally made it that way)
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moogle-taxi


Warnings : 1 Godlike Posts: 1433 Joined: 14 Jan 2008 gold

Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 10:02 pm

i can link this somewhere in my trelen guide when i can be bothere dot add buriza.

ugh still not published but approved Sad
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quale


Monster Kill Posts: 451 Joined: 13 Aug 2007 gold

Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 10:30 pm

@ pencilpusher
that's a good question, but moogle_taxi already answered. also, hood of defiance don't stack with planewalker's or another hood, i think. need more confirmation.

@ bishounen
diffusal and purge are solutions for counters. i think spellcasters don't have a problem against these, except if their spells are buff placer.

@ kavgaci
are you asking lion has mana drain? well, none. lich has a good solution for his mana which is dark ritual.

this thread is all about spellcaster's problem due to their magical damage.
Wink

@ fole
haha! yup i hope it reach the library. but i'm not gonna insist that to a mod. how's your guide for creating strategies?
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ABOUT MAGICAL DAMAGE
SENTINEL VS. SCOURGE


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folechno


Warnings : 1 Godlike Posts: 1878 Joined: 09 Dec 2007 gold

Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 10:40 pm

quale wrote:
@ fole
haha! yup i hope it reach the library. but i'm not gonna insist that to a mod. how's your guide for creating strategies?

Working on it now. Hope to finish it tonight, in about an hour or two (or more if I get sidetracked on Bnet)

Also, you guide is being liked, an example of good guides. I'm also linking cf[x]'s tb guide and coco's Mirana guide (by request). Any more you think I should link?
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quale


Monster Kill Posts: 451 Joined: 13 Aug 2007 gold

Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 10:47 pm

link's of guides as an example? 3 is enough.

if you want more, i liked KAKEE's Pit guide coz she has this You Tube video created by herself. Moon_Raven's Kael guide is also good coz he explained all Kael's spells with images. well, if amp's has his published, that's even better.
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ABOUT MAGICAL DAMAGE
SENTINEL VS. SCOURGE


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genso19


Warnings : 1 Mega Kill Posts: 965 Joined: 23 May 2007 gold

Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 12:22 pm

of course, spell resistance doesn't answer it all, couple it up with hp buff, since a reduced Laguna Blade can still hurt Magina with poor hp

and I think I saw on FF's table that planewalker's cloak and HoD stacks, not xur though

manta style has mana break too, and coupling it with image heroes could have devastating effect of spellcasters
Darkterror's Backtrack is really irritating, lol
you could also add Doombringer on the silence list.

just suggestions ^_^ good job quale
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sfsy1


Godlike Posts: 1801 Joined: 08 Sep 2007 gold

Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 12:24 pm

Just some misconceptions to clear up:

1.
From the word immune, it means resisted or protected. Enemy heroes under spell immunity will receive zero damage to any magical spells. Here is an item you need to check:

2.
Immuned unit do take in damage from some spells, which can be physcial/magical damage type. i dont quite get wat u mean by "magical spells"

When your spell requires selecting a target, then this item can get in your way:

Not all target spells will be blocked. and target spell doesnt mean requires selecting a target by clicking on him. (eg, Luna's eclipse)

k, thats all.

Also, Lion should be included in the mana drainers. 100/s x 4 is a lot.

And, Last Word aura can be negated by canceling the backswing of the cast. since it happens after the backswing is over.

Thanks for the revisions still!
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