Some complicated Item Mathematics

Some complicated Item Mathematics

Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 2:13 pm

Hello everyone I hope everything is well.

I've recently been playing DotA (OMG Rly?) and I have come across some questions that I feel as if I need answering. I will provide some background information and the scenario to accompany my item-based questions.

Battlefury x2
As you all know, Battlefury has a cleaving effect.

Scenario
I was Juggernaut and I just completed my 2nd Battlefury. I was chasing down a couple of heroes (Luna, Huskar) down MID lane and I could have sworn when I started hitting Huskar, Luna and the creeps took more damage than Huskar. Could this have been because of Splash Damage or just because I'm crazy and seeing things?

Magnus, Sven + Battlefury x2

Scenario
Magnus ulti + Cleave = Triple Kill.
Sven ulti + stun = Dead enemy.

This is in conjunction with the scenario of Juggernaut. Does the Cleave effect become greater therefore do more damage to the creeps + heroes to the side than the actual hero being attacked?

Monkey King Bar + Basher
MKB has a 0.01 sec Stunning Effect and Basher Stuns and Bashes.

Scenario
Well, no scenario really... I just wanted to know what happens when I have both items. Because I know that apparently when I have mkb or basher with Ursa it gets in the way of the Orb effect or something? I think it's not a valid statement but I just wanted to clarify things.

Gondar Jinada + Buriza + Butterfly
Jinada has a Dodge and Crit chance. Buriza has a Crit chance and Butterfly has a dodge.

Scenario
As I'm aware that Buriza isn't good for Naga Siren (arguably) I was just wondering how the items would affect Gondar's 3rd Skill performance?

Okay well thanks for reading and feel free to add answers

- Signing off

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Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 2:23 pm

For cleaving attack -> did you look at their hp bars or really at their hp?
Because luna don't have as many base hp as huskar because he is strength hero. Maybe you thought luna was taken more damage because her hp is lower. Do you know what i mean? I think that is the problem. If you compare never look at hp bars.
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Re: Some complicated Item Mathematics

Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 2:25 pm




luna and the creeps has smaller hp than huskar
that makes the cleave looks deadly...^^
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Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 2:32 pm

1st---Notice that luna has a longer hp bar even though her hitpoints are lower. maybe that's why you noticed that you dealt more damage to luna.

2nd---could be possible but i'm not sure

3rd---the stun overrides the other, so when someone is bashed and mkb's ministun triggers it will override the bash stun, vice versa but you won't see bash override ministun since it's only 0.1 second long...

4th---butterfly's evasion will be in effect...buriza and jinada crit triggers accordingly, if both of them is triggered at the same time only the higher crit will hit...
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Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 2:40 pm

@ AlbatrossX
thx for explaining better!

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Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 3:53 pm

Battlefury:
Yes, all cleave stacks additively and if your cleave is over 100% your splash will deal more damage than your normal attack.

Monkey King Bar + Basher

Stuns don't stack but they override each other. If both stuns proc, then the last stun's duration will take effect. As for the scenario regarding Ursa, bash won't stack with swipes because whenever a bash procs it will override swipes.

Gondar Jinada + Buriza + Butterfly

Different crits will have different chances of procuring but if 2 different crits were to proc at the same time only one of them will take effect. Evasion does not stack, and the higher evasion will override the lower one.

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Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 5:16 pm

hehehe...
we had the same answrs...
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Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 3:49 am

~fwii has answered all questions, you have until I next look to ask more questions before I lock this.
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Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 4:25 am

I believe in one of the dota upgrades the changlog said that if you have an mkb and a bash(skill or item), and they both proc at the same time you get both the bashes. Meaning mkb dosent overide bash anymore...
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Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 4:30 am

kk the way it works, is actually more akin to splash.

bfury means that 35% of your damage hits the units in an area around your target, thus if you get 2 battlefuries, its 70% of your damage, same area.

the reason the creeps and luna took more damage is because huskar probably had insane regen and possibly more armor.
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Answered...

Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:04 am

For the first scenario, you were cleaving and seeing that other enemy heroes nearby are taking more damage than Huskar. Obviously, Luna and the creeps have WAY lower hp and armor. Huskar has alot of hp, so you would of seen his life go little, by little, but actually he's being affected with more damage than you saw what Luna was taking. Also, with the armor percentages will lower down cleave's damage, so Huskar would of taken less damage than cleave's full damage, which was applying to Luna and the creeps.

Second scenario: I'm sure that the splashed damage also applies for the same target being hit, or else that would be kinda unfair in pushing/farming.

3rd Secario (not really): MKB and Basher's stunning effects will be versatile and happen at different times, unless lucky. It won't become 1.1 stunning time. It will be, for example, a few 0.1 stuns and then finally a 1 second stun.

4th scenario: This is why Gondar needs these two items to own.

Hope I've answered em'.
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Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:43 am

1. Battlefury x2 stacks. 35% + 35% is 70%, and probably Dotamorph was right about Luna taking more damage. Luna does have piss HP anyway.

2. When splash damage is 100% or higher, the units next to the target you attacked will take more damage.

3. Mini-stun of MKB and stun of Basher have different procurance rates but the MKB stun will cancel out the duration of Basher stun if it procs during basher stun. See fwii's answer on the Ursa part.

4. When a hero has 2 critical chances, from item or skill, they have 2 different proc rates, but they can proc at the same time. When they do proc at the same time, the lower crit will be counted and the higher crit will not. (This is when you see 2 overlapping red numbers appear over an enemies head) Higher evasion rate overrides lower evasion rate.
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Re: Answered...

Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 1:31 pm



LOL are you sure? Gondar with butterfly and buriza?
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Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 10:11 pm

I think answers are just being repeated over and over.
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