DotaStrategy.com - View topic - Buffs & Orbs stacking

Daelin

First Blood Posts: 36 Joined: 23 Jan 2007 0 gold

Buffs & Orbs stacking

Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 6:23 pm

Buff stacking

Yes, Vladimir's Offering stacks with Vampiric Aura. How you can tell this? All auras have a specific buff. If the buff is the same for both, then they don't stack. If they aren't they do.
We have Crystal Maiden with Brilliance Aura and Basilius with Brilliance Aura too. As they have the same name (and the same icon), we can deduct that they use the same buff, and so, they won't stack.
On the other hand, we have Sven with TOUGHNESS Aura and Basilius with DEVOTION Aura. Different names (on the buff not the name of the aura itself), therefore they are different, and so, they stack.
Final example is Leoric with VAMPIRIC Aura, N'aix with FEAST (what do you know, Feast is also an aura, just modified so that it affects only the caster) and Vladimir's Offering. Not only are the names different, but also the icons, and therefore, it's quite obvious that the buffs are different.

However, there is a possibility that different buffs actually have the same name, description and icon but are different. That can't be predicted but through their rawcode (which is a specific four alphanumeric code which is used to identify each object - ability/buff/unit/item etc.).

Even though the spells might've been based off the same ability (both Sven's and Basilius auras are based off Devotion Aura!), their effects will stack as long as their buffs are different.

We can't deduct anything from here about Evasion or Critical Strike. They are usually specific abilities which behave the same everytime (they don't have a "buff"), so for example if you base multiple abilities off evasion, no matter what names you give them or icons or descriptions or whatever, they won't stack. The only way to stack such abilities is by coding them yourself (so yes, there may be some evasive abilities which stack which evasion, but are NOT based off evasion and the coding is made from scratch).

Orb stacking
The problem with orbs, and more specifically the fact that having multiple orb effects on an un it can cause serious problems, is not new for DotA players. However, this problem was not purposely generated by IceFrog as he created the map. It is a known bug into the Warcraft modding community that orb effects are rather bugged, with the fact that they don't "stack". So why would modders use orb effects in the first place?

Well firstly, because they are the easiest way to obtain certain passive spells. Ever wanted to make a passive ability that randomly puts an enemy unit to sleep during an attack? And you don't even know how to work with those fuzzy triggers, or even worse, with that bizzare JASS stuff? Well, then you just have to open the Object Editor, make a copy of "Orb of Lightning" item ability, and change some fields (replace Purge with Sleep). And voila, it actually works.

Now, IceFrog is a pretty good coder, as experienced spellmakers have succeeded in cracking the scrambling of his coding, and had noticed that the code was actually written by himself. But there are certain aspects where JASS still remains limited, or atleast, requires quite some annoying and complicated code, which can slow the map. Detecting when any unit on the map has been damaged has not been implemented as an event by Blizzard. Therefore, you can't actually tell when Avernus damages an unit, to make a Maim check (and perhaps get the effect on the target). You can tell when Avernus ATTACKS the target, but it is extremely innacurate, as the maim effect could take place BEFORE the target is damaged or even if you actually miss. That's quite stupid, isn't it? Hysterical

Therefore, Orb effects are the easiest solution. They don't stack with each other, and you could even say that you planned this on purpose. Much better than having a bugged item, and no reason for the bug. However, what surprises me is that in the melee game, you could have multiple orb items (because yeah, that's where the whole orb effect stuff comes from) and they did not cause problems. So it's either the fact that all orb abilities in DotA are based off the same ability or there is some weird bug I simply can't understand. I know that you can't have multiple orb ABILITIES (on the unit) but I knew you can have multiple items with orb abilities. If there are any other modders around here, I'd like to hear you opinion.

Orb Effects Experiment
Ok, I've started conducting my experiment, and I have some terrific results. I've experimented with orb effects that manipulate other abilities (practically turn them passive, with or without a percentage chance), because they are the most important. I created six orb effects, named simple: "Orb Effect 1", "Orb Effect 2"... "Orb Effect 6". Three of them are based off Melee Lightning Damage Bonus, and the other three off Orb of Lightning (new), Orb of Slow and Item Attack Black Arrow Bonus.

First step was to see how the orbs acted as actual abilities on the unit (multiple orb abilities). I worked with only four orb abilities (each based off a different ability). I came to the conclusion that strangely if Darkness or Lightning Melee was placed on the last position, the one that was on the last position was triggered (position in ability editor, between the orbs of course). Of however, none of these was on the last position, the first orb effect between Slow and Lightning (new) was triggered. Not very helpful though as there are no multiple orb abilities on the same unit in DotA.

Next, I experimented with items. The first problem came when different items had orb abilities based off other abilities (I based all off Lightning Melee & Lighting (new), apparently they act the same). If not, they caused problems (like none of them were issued). Another problem was with the attack index. I had to force the field (hold shield while double-clicking on it => forced values) to insert attack blah blah OVER 2. And what do you know? ONE orb effect is triggered.

It took me about 10 seconds to figure out how to issue the orb effect I actually wanted. It is the first item in the item menu (in the first slots). Slots are numbered from left to right and from top to bottom. And if you have a passive orb ability (preferably based off the same ability as the original one, haven't experimented a lot with it) on the HERO, it will be issued if there is no item with orb effect on the first slot.

You can get the map and test it yourself here .

Potential problems :
Undroppable items. It is advised that IceFrog makes some sort of menu which allows you to move undroppable items through your item inventory. Because if you are stuck with an Aegis on your first item slot and you have an orb ability, you're stuck with it for the rest of the game.

Hope this made things clearer as I saw quite a lot of people confused around here.[/b]

Last edited by Daelin on Thu Feb 08, 2007 9:24 am; edited 3 times in total