What makes a Carry - Pub's pick vs League's Pick

Posted on Fri Nov 20, 2009 7:52 pm

Yes, I deffinitely agree that strong mid-game carries are deffinitely being used more by pros than lategame

What I think most of the people here are missing tho, is that tinker is an EXAMPLE of a mid-game carry, and premabashers + mort are EXAMPLES of late-game carry.

Take ursa warrior, as another example of a midgame carry. He can deal massive burst damage with overpower and furyswipes. With even one disable on an opponent, they will die very quickly. He is also a good ganker as lothars and blink(core items for ursa, you almost always get one or the other) allow him to execute surprise ganks perfectly. Turn on enrage, initiate, turn on overpower and thats 6 attacks at lightning speed.

As far as survivablity goes as a drawback to playing a melee carry, ursa may have the best survival tool - an aegis. Being one of the best early rosher's around, you can have an aegis every 10 mins starting at level 9.

Combine that with his high strength gain, and an AoE slow that prevents escapes, and you once again have a very good mid-game carry. And on that note, I would like to point out that he is seeing sgnificantly more league play lately. What a coincidence that I chose to mention him...
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Posted on Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:00 pm

level 9 is a gross underestimate
as soon as you get vlads you can rosh
well minimum of level 4
anyway
hows this build for mid game troll?
Jungle:
start QB and stout with regen item of choice
get vlads or treads quickly
when both are complete rosh usually 13-15 mins maybe later if mess ups
then you can start ganking with teammates as damage support
once you have diffusal you can gank lone heros just not like rhasta or the like that can multi-disable you
last core would be bkb
without bkb: around 7k
with bkb: about 10k
now i understand that diffusal would be gotten rather late midgame but can still use it effectively
late game get bkb
now it may not be as stable as tinker perma ganking but it can still be effective
and as for a laning troll he can have a farming advatage earlier game over tinker and that is melee QB on range giving him great last hitting and ability to get that money quicker

now i understand that we are using tink as an example so troll is mine being that he is the easiest of the "omgimpermabashingurheadin" carries with the range ability
so
Pros:
Extremely effecient at ganking lone heros with diffusal(imo)
Carries over into late game getting only stronger
Cons
Paper-ish
If farming fails he is food
can be ganked easily while jungling/laning without sufficeint team help

So some cons some pros but i still tend to like troll more than tinker but since i don't play much league i can't have much understanding there but there is some potential for late game carries to rise earlier imo
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Posted on Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:32 pm

Well, frankly speaking, I was not very excited to read a Tinker vs Mortred/Troll scenario as we'll always end up agreeing that league picks are better... something like Kunkka vs Tinker or alike would've made my day. But anyways, that was definitely a good read. Kudos!
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Posted on Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:51 pm

Nice reading!


and very good written counter_force!

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Posted on Fri Nov 20, 2009 11:01 pm

IDK about Void, PA, Troll, but a good huskar can deal with tinker.. has nice harassment early-mid game.. Not that good farming skills but i think he wont have problems.. if tinkers faces nice harassment, he needs to buy lots of regen items so he can stay and farm for his travels. Huskar has enough hp to survive the tinkers combo even with double or triple guinzo. And while tinker needs travels, guinzo, shiva (and maybe bloodstone), huskar needs Streads, hood/or not, AoM and Bkb and mb HotD.. I think 1on1 with 603 starting gold, huskar will be able to defeat tinker. 5on5 - depends on team. (And btw Huskar is a pub carry )
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Posted on Sat Nov 21, 2009 3:37 am

Tinker is generally better lane control than Huskar, not to mention rune control as well. His Lasers hurts a lot and because he is ranged, Huskar is very unlikely to get near him to toss his spears. Huskar is pretty strong throughout all stages of the game, but he definitely takes a back seat to true late game heroes.

I find TB to be one of the strongest DPS carries simply because he is a better pusher than Troll, Void, Mortred, etc. TB is actually capable of finishing a game by himself, while other DPS heroes are more easily targetted and too dependant on BKB. TB with 5 illusions can be pretty intimidating and difficult to stop. Tinker is a carry, but not necessarily the best late game hero. His effectiveness begins to decrease after 60 minutes, when super-late game heroes just rape everything. In leagues, you rarely see super late game heroes farm their 30k worth of items. And since Tinker only needs 2700 gold to carry his team, he is a much more effective choice.
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Posted on Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:51 am

oh wow


@phoenix
i'll do better next time



someone needs to be ready next week. muslims are having a celebration and i cant be here by then

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Posted on Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:31 pm



Its called shift-queuing.
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Posted on Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:42 pm

lol. You're doing an awesome job. Nothing more should be expected.
Isn't wickaz ready?
What's the occasion?
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Posted on Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:47 pm

Quote:
muslims are having a celebration and i cant be here by then
What's the occasion?

Hari Raya Haji methinks.
Festive season for muslims.
Free holidays for others.

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Posted on Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:34 am

Heres a question: sucky dota players don't even understand the basic dota mechanics, now how the hell would an eloquent and well written post like that convince, or at least persuade, the shitty players, that pro players use tinker(and other mid game carries) not because they are boring but because they are effective?

Answer that for me, CFX.
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Posted on Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:36 am

Heres a question: sucky dota players don't even understand the basic dota mechanics, now how the hell would an eloquent and well written post like that convince, or at least persuade, the shitty players, that pro players use tinker(and other mid game carries) not because they are boring but because they are effective?

Answer that for me, CFX.
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Posted on Wed Nov 25, 2009 2:27 am



Now let's not go overboard by saying Troll cant out-carry Tinker once he's farmed. Simply put, BKB destroys Tinker. With with Troll's super DPS, he'll kill Tinker's entire team in under 10 seconds. Satanic>Blademail is another good equation to keep in mind. Troll is freakin beast in late game, but being able to farm his required items is a whole different story.
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Posted on Wed Nov 25, 2009 2:32 am

Sarcasm?
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Posted on Wed Nov 25, 2009 2:58 am

sir CF, what do you mean by 'control' of Slardar, Visage, and Spectre?

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