Lion - who needs regen anyways?

~~~New weekend, new strategy~~~

lmfao @ getting mana drain

Worst EVER

finally someone else agrees with getting mana drain early, lately ive seen ppl who used lion max out hex first which doesnt seem very smart =(

woo new strat.
very nice i love playing Lion he just zaps the shit out of everyone.
this is a good strat, i personally dont use mana drain but u have convinced to do so now.
a couple of screenies would be nice, maybe showing a couple of kills with your suggested combos or something.
anyway good job!

7.5/10

the user has 3 posts, the last of which was July 10th, I forsee this becoming like the Drow and the Viper guide (and possibly the Rylai guide unless Moon_Raven comes back)

now for my comments
"Useful disable! Always level this once early on, because even one level can help you escape a gank with impale. If you feel you need this more, get it instead of stats at 9-10. If you don't need this very much, get it 23-25. This has many uses. Use it (alternated with impale) to escape a gank. Use it to give yourself and your teammates more time to dps heros. Use it to disable strong heros (and bashers late game) in team fights."
Horrible. 1 early game when it only lasts 1

second, you will spend just as much time casting this as they will spend as a chicken, not worth it 2. never wait until 23-25, this is an awesome disable and will be useful in team clashes

the mana levels for Mana Drain are now correct, you can edit that out of the spell description, also in addition to using it on creeps you can use it on stunned heroes, also you can't spam it every 10 seconds because the first few waves have only 1 ranged creep and the waves don't spawn every 10 seconds

disagree with your skill build, you should not get voodoo at lvl 5, it costs too much mana and won't doo very much, especially since it lasts only 1 second, it is better to get Impale lvl 3 since it does more damage and will stun longer (yes impale lvl 2 + voodoo lvl 1 will disable longer but how much damage can you do during that 1 second when the enemy is voodooed that you couldn't do during the stun time of Impale lvl 3)

other than that the skill build is fine

since you don't end up

[k0d3] banned for vulgarities.

using the ring of regen in any item, I would suggest getting tangoes instead, maybe even a flask if you are heavily nuked

agree with dagon rush, Aghanim's afterwards is open to opinion, yes it will help your survival but having another disable like Euls or Guinsoo will help more in team clashes and ganks, also Lion won't spend much of the game farming since he should be out ganking and killing people (imo)

situational items are good, you might also consider Shiva's since it has a good aoe

Not a bad guide, pretty easy to understand... requires screen shots tho, you say a quick hero won't be hit with impale.. maybe talk about a way to get him? Mention somewhere that you can target impale on ground or hero, and make sure you don't misclick it.. and whatever changes folechno suggested.

and the armor will help somewhat with your survival

I recommend linking to Ghost's guide to dota for those new people who don't know much about last hitting and denying (http://www.dotastrategy.com/forum/ftopic10674.html)

you should be a little more descriptive when talking about how to play early game

when talking about mana draining, when the enemy starts hitting you, casting impale on them will break the channeling so you won't get the mana, that's why it's much better to impale the

hero and then drain the hero's mana, I wouldn't do this until you have Impale lvl 2 since lvl 1 only stuns for 0.5 seconds and then they can run out of range, at lvl 2 though you will get 2, maybe 3 seconds of mana out of them, also this will deplete the enemies' mana so they can't harass you through spells, if people scream 'we want screenshots' this would be a nice thing to get screenshots of

when running away, run towards a tower, that way when they get stunned the tower will hit them and

they will probably stop chasing you, also you might want to cover juking, here is Katzie's guide to it (http://www.garena.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=19085&extra=&page=1)

you should also cover good allies to have during early game that might allow for a first blood before lvl 6, such as other nukers or people who can amplify your damage (Pugna, Vol'jin)

agree with killing combo, very straightforward

agree with killing combo in mid game as well

you should cover good allies, good

common item build but nice skill build and a fine guide to understand..6.5/10

lol good gude. its identical to my item build sans the 1st 3 you have listed and i definetly agree with folechno with the voodo a lil too early and the mana drain harrassment..it seems like eveyrbody discounts that because "enemies will run away" somehow forgetting tha lion is full of disables

7/10 - very simple to follow but it would be cooler with some pics and maybe a list of heroes that lion is good and bad with, sill pretty good for a 1st time

heroes to gank with, easy targets to kill, which heroes you should be killing (their carry heroes are nice targets)

late game is not the same as early and mid game, now Lion's nukes won't do too much so her becomes more of a support hero whose disables are more pwerful than his nukes (yes the nukes are important but in team clashes it is usually the team with more disables that wins)

again, good allies, pushing? roshan? any cool/weird combos?

you need to add more to this guide imo

impale stats impale stats impale stats impale stats impale stats impale stats impale stats impale stats impale stats impale stats impale stats impale stats impale stats impale stats impale stats impale stats impale stats impale stats impale stats impale stats impale stats impale stats impale stats impale stats impale stats impale stats impale stats impale stats impale stats impale stats impale stats impale stats impale stats impale stats impale stats impale stats can I make myself more clear?

you left a lot of important things out (view above comments)

is there any difference between regular mode and em games? should you be more aggresive? gank more? farm more?

you really need to cover team play, lion is not going to solo all game, he will be there in big team clashes and he has an important role

you might want to cover animation canceling (if you think Lion has a bad/long animation) for attacking and/or casting spells

at what point should you get BoT? and why are they

better than treads? (I agree they are but you might want to explain that because people will try to make Lion a dps hero and will go with treads)

ss and vids will make people love your guide, Lion doesn't really need them to explain his skills but people don't care about that and jsut want to looka t pictures instead od read text, even if the pictures serve no purpose (other than breaking up the text)

you should simplify your item build by taking out the pieces and just having the final

item, it will make it much easier to understand

and you might want to talk about the 3 situation items in the conclusion and compare them, talk about which is good for what reasons, why you would get one over the other

decent strategy, you need to add things, you need to elaborate on playing, you need to cover team play

would rate this as a 5/10, will wait for 1 week for an update before rating it as a 5

and curses to all you who ruined my beyond godlike posting spree!!!!!

@DarkLord_sr you can only get 4 lvls of impale and 10 lvls of stats, also it is better to get mana drain early game so you can spam impale a lot

also I forgot you should include something about good heroes to mana drain

also impale can miss sometimes if the hero is moving

this is exactly like i play lion

mana drain in the early game is nice

you can stun enemys every 12 secs thats really annoying for them

i usually play solo on a lane but i skill voodoo after maxed out manadrain and impale but before stats

wow folencho, u have half of all the posts right now,

gd guide, i'm gonna play lion soon, after i pratice guitar >.

Mana drain before voodoo? fail!
Stats before voodoo? fail!

Maxing mana drain is pointless as enemy creep waves cant be harvested for that much mana. 1 point is MORE than plenty (given cooldown to creep spawn ratio).

In ganking, mana drain is useless.
In team fights, mana drain is useless.

Thus, mana drain is useless. Any non idiotic opponent will attack you the second they see you mana draining a creep anyway.

Seriously though a 1 second voodoo is a waste of mana.

@hemingxi well then you guys need to comment more, I'm probably a little long winded but I think each of my comments can help make this guide better so I add in everything I see (and I read the guide carefully too)

@rain9441 I agree based on the way he supported his skill build and the play style, but read my earlier comments, mana drain can be used on the enemy hereo when they are stunned, so you need more mana drain to drain faster

@folencho
i'm not pro enough to comment more :)

You stun then attack, you don't mana drain a stunned hero, ever.

@rain9441 you have your way to play, I have mine, I like to drain the stunned heroes so that they don't have any mana to use spells on me, and this way I don't have to leave myself too vulnerable since I only move up close when they are stunned, you seem to play more agressively and if that works for you then that works for you, I play slightly more defensive and prefer to harass and lane control through Impale spamming and mana draining

something else I forgot to point out, using Impale then Mana Drain won't draw any creep aggro but when you start attcking the enemy hero they creeps will start attacking you

good strat, but lacks of pics for combos and such.. overall 9/10 just for lack of screenies and I agree with maxing mana drain first..

People who get voodoo early are noobs, voodoo is not useful early becuase you never have the mana to cast it, with mana drain maxed out early to spam impale for last hitting creeps and extreme annoying. Also maxing drain allows you to gank a lot with finger of death. Hex is good only in team clashes which starts around levels 13-15 anyways so it is really crappy early game. Normally I would give a 5 for no screenshots/small guide but for promoting mana drain, I will give 10.

.....You could have did this on your skill build....

1,3=impale2
2,4=Mana drain
5=Voodoo
then max voodoo and impale2 then stats then at level 22 ur mana drain (Level 2 drain is fine)

Pretty much explains how to kill. Nothing more. 4/10

New weekend,no new great strategy...

OK first of all get some screens,you don't need to wait for requests for screens,i can't state how important they are in an strat.

Second,i disagree with the skill build,voodo at lvl 5 is useles,better get impale rank 3,4 ranks of mana drain are not needed in early game,get only 2,they will suffice.If you wish you can get rank 4 mana draing after you have maxed voodo and impale

Continuing...

Third,i dissagree with youre item build,dagon is not something you need,and youre mana can't support it well...
Let's take an lvl 9 example (with maxed impale and voodo,for maximum effect)
170+200+200+245=815 mana...
By that level you have 49+15(from dagon) intel...that's 793 mana...
And aga turns you into an ulti dependant hero,with aga you can kill only if you have youre ulti

A pretty narrow minded view of how to play a hero. You explain how to kill, but where's the team/ganking tactics? You give your skill and item build, but where are the alternates which would depend on the type of game you're playing? Needs more depth and a broader perspective - do some editing as per folechno's suggestions above.

Oh,and with the refresher part,again no mana...realy...600+275+600=1475 mana...and that's only youre ulti,no disabeling

Aha .. The same skill build .. But not the same item .. I usualy gets

-desolator
-dagon
-vangurd
-orochid

to all you noobs who say not to get mana drain early...N-N-N-NOOBSAUCE

This explains nothing. FAIL!

Let folechno do the criticizing.

And by the way mods. WHY PUT OFF FOLECNOS GUIDE FOR THIS STUFF? 5 guides in a row. None are 5 stars.

This guide is good but why no shivas? I think that shivas is the perfect item for lion.

The actual strategy isn't that great but I agree on item and skill build.

lol at coco. dont shout at the mods.

wow fole, it's like you want to edit this guide yourself. all your suggestions can fill up the entire guide. haha!

if it's true that the author is inactive for a month, then i'm disappointed to this guide. why bother to suggest if he will not respond anyway.

5/10

Aw that hurt....

Good job, not my style and need some more work though. I rate 7 for your effort.

In response to half of folechno's posts, I'm so incredibly sick of reading guides that spam every single hero picture at the end of their guide. Do you think that anyone is going to remember every single hero combo? At that, WE ALL KNOW WHAT EACH HERO DOES. There's no need to keep posting who can stun just to make a strat longer. Same exact thing goes for last hitting and denying.
And in response to your other complaining, this is one way to play lion that works. Obviously you have your own.

This guide is superb, this is how i build lion too =3 but i prefer casting many drain on heroes then next priority is the ranged creep. it really is annoying for an enemy meelee hero to get mana drained, even if people say "hey i will just walk away" but still mana drain at max will really hurt your mana pool. They whack you because its channeling? you can just cast impale before they get near. with mana drain you can spam impale on creeps if youre not good at last hitting.

10/10 good job =3

This guide is superb, this is how i build lion too =3 but i prefer casting many drain on heroes then next priority is the ranged creep. it really is annoying for an enemy meelee hero to get mana drained, even if people say "hey i will just walk away" but still mana drain at max will really hurt your mana pool. They whack you because its channeling? you can just cast impale before they get near. with mana drain you can spam impale on creeps if youre not good at last hitting.

10/10 good job =3

Can i add vangaurd as optional item from the start? demon witch have a pathetic hp at early game..

sorry for the double post my explorer hanged up.

i usually add shiva's to spam it with impale to eat the whole creep wave. more money =3

@strategy author

folechno has a point, dota is a team game, you'll need to cover team play. add some helpful tips like checking ur opponents items, if they have linkens sphere, better cast mana drain first so as not to negate finger of death.

is there any other good item build for lion depending upon your opponent? if so please state them as well =3

hmm....not bad..but i have a better strategy

sorry for the double post my explorer hanged up.

i usually add shiva's to spam it with impale to eat the whole creep wave. more money =3

@strategy author

folechno has a point, dota is a team game, you'll need to cover team play. add some helpful tips like checking ur opponents items, if they have linkens sphere, better cast mana drain first so as not to negate finger of death.

is there any other good item build for lion depending upon your opponent? if so please state them as well =3

Gøod job..i thought mana drain useless,but u prove me wrong..i can drain mana to low mana pool hero str hero like abbadon,skeleton,sven..no shield no stun..

Short but nice ^^

7/10

dont get refresher orb. just get eules or guinsoo for more disables. i have tried using refresher and believe me, it didnt work that good. need a lot of mana

@ oneboreddrummer

showing the pictures of heroes that can stun (or disable or can combo with you or whatever) can be a help. this is to give the reader an idea, especially to those who are new to dota. but you don't need to show all the heroes. some would be enough.

fole made those suggestions merely to make your guide fun to read and increase your credibility.

may i suggest you put replays or a video.

seen lions pwning, cause they can stay on mana (and on lane) while draining, plus the courier does the walks, very nice guide and good for every new lion :)

@everyone above who said mana drain was useless

Getting mana drain for Lion is essential for early (mana) harrass, mana regen, and defensive purpose from nukes.

Agree with Pinky.
Lets see... (* = mentioned).
Only explains how to kill.*
One level of Voodoo at the start and then maxing it at the end.* Seriously how is that worth getting so early for only 1 second. You don't have the mana capacity to make use of that.
No screenies.*
Short guide.*
Finally something nobody else has said: you put another Point Booster instead of a Vitality Booster.

On the flip side, your item build is effective (I know since I use most of it).

Room to improve...

nice guide! kinda disagree on skill build, but still, good job!

"And in response to your other complaining, this is one way to play lion that works."

... Somehow I am skeptical about your lvl1 Voodoo being of any use whatsoever. Or not maxing Impale by lvl7. That sort of thing.

And you could at least put down the very worst enemies of Lion, y'know - Antimage, Pudge - the usual suspects.

Interesting Skill Build.. But I don't see the use of Mana Drain...

Never mind.. I get it now.. Sounds better when someone explains it

Needs some more beef and screenies, but generally a well thought out guide. For me, if I go hex / mana drain early I get one or the other because either the mana drain is going to be weak, or the hex is going to be short.
Decent overall though. 7/10

maxing mana drain is one of the most horrible thing you could do with lion, obviusly, since its channeling, it has range, and is useless when they have no mana. stick to 2 levels

dagon-really, really bad item. orchid is better

about refresher
fails seriously

voodoo should be maxed at 12-15

other than that, sweet guide

6/10

well first item is Ring of Regeneration and Ancient Tango of Essifation that mean's LION NEEDS REGEN ANYWAYS
well that's standard strategy
7/10

Instead of getting a dagon you should consider getting him more disable and survivability items.

wat the hell, this is a short strategy.
at least i learned some things..
5.87/10

aghanims is somehow useless....especially in 5 on 5..might as well settle for disables like euls or shiva..

Dagon + aganims out of the question
It gives nothing 2 your team.
Why spend so much cash on something which doesnt improve your ulti that much.
get bloodstone instead if you want hp + mana.
Now guinso is the item you wanna rush.
stun, hex, hex is SO good for your team.
I also suggest when you are vs a solo lane every time your oppo comes near just stun and mana drain WHILE he's in the air by shift holding.
This way you drain mana 1 sec before he is stunned.
Orchids isnt needed go shivas instead.

O and for your "so good" refresher combo you need this mana :
170 + 650 + 245 + 275 + 170 + 650 + 245 =

the grand total of 2405 mana!
Good Luck :D

I can only find one way that voodoo level 1 would be usefeull. to stop enemy hereoes from using channeling spells. But for this you can just use impale (unless it's on cooldown of course, then voodoo level 1 would have a use).

O and for your "so good" refresher combo you need this mana :
170 + 650 + 245 + 275 + 170 + 650 + 245 =

the grand total of 2405 mana!
Good Luck :D

nice, its exactly how i play lion... same skill build, same items build... and goddam, it works! ill give u 8/10 and not 10/10 just coz u did post no images and no list of good allies/bad enemies

O and for your "so good" refresher combo you need this mana :
170 + 650 + 245 + 275 + 170 + 650 + 245 =

the grand total of 2405 mana!
Good Luck :D

yeah, the guide author is actually on, props for that

now I did not say to list every hero with a stun, I mean just to include certain heroes who might be good, 2 heroes with really nice synergy and Pugna and Vol'jin, Pugna for decrepify which makes your combo deal more damage (and your stun allows him to drain easier) and Voo'jin for Maledict, which also amplifies damage (and the additional stun helps)

"I recommend linking to Ghost's guide to dota for those new people who don't know much"

that's 2 lines, and it covers plenty of topics

and covering team play at all is good, you don't mention anything other than use your spells, who do you target? who do you disable? coordination with teammates?

Lion is a good ganker so you should cover that in early to mid, since he doesn't need to farm to be effective so he can go kill people while your team carry hero farms

needs work, if you have questions/want to argue, PM me

and update this or I will rate as a 5

folechno says it all.

Lion is really the hero through out the game but an item really dominate him- hood of defiance. Nuking is not so good anymore because impale and his ulti do less damage bec. of the spell reduction

This guide looks like he sat down one day...typed it up right after playing a game with lion...and here it is.

It's not very polished...no screenies...no alternative builds...not much to go on except the item build...

Disappointing....

3/10

1. Impale
2. Hit hit hit (while they are stunned)
3. Dagon
4. Finger while they run
5. Dance some more!

I would just do it like that :
1. Impale
2. shift + Dagon
3. shift + Finger
4. Hit

This will spam those 3 skills in 0.5 sec because dagon and finger are instant cast nukes. Of course you can't do anything else while setting this up with shift but you got more time for hitting and you needn't have fast fingers casting the nukes one by one :)

timolloy9's post removed and warned.

Seriously I will fry anyone and everyone who dares to utter the Abominable Word in front of me. Try me.

why dagon so fast? if u wanna kill, just stun, hex, whack and hex( guinsoo). I think the cd for impale should have finished. Then try to repeat the process again. Just a suggestion. But i feel dagon should not be priority.

Since when do we have an Abominable Word. You guys don't tell me anything.

Seriously no flaming. Whatever it was.

if 1vs1 i would suggest guinso...
so no one can get away from you...
impale,hit,vodoo,hit,guinso,hit,impale hit, and so on..myb u dun hv 2 use finger to slay ur enemy..

agree with most of the people here,.... your skill build and item build doesnt synergize very well IMO....dagon early with your skill build will consume 700 mana... (O_O)...
impale+mana drain is very effective.... pinky is right... no mana for him.. no nukes... more mana for you... more nukes for him.. mana drain has a far range so its not gonna go to waste...
(vodoo) that 1 second wont save you.. youre gonna need to go a little near just to cast it... so your basically just gonna get closer.

i prefer to have vanguards early so i can gank a lot...
hmmm... guess folechno already explained most of the problems with this guide... ill wait for a week before i rate this for improvement.... GL....

Stunning and mana drain...

If lion was using drain on me or my ally, It'd go something like this:

Lion stuns, lion drains. Me and my ally walk up to lion. We stun lion, whack, whack, lion is dead.

If you are considering the case where your enemies dont have a stun, then they you already have lane dominance and it doesnt matter what you do because they prolly picked all agi carries and have no nukes. Either way, if you have dominance, they wont be in a position to get stunned/drained.

@rain9441 so how is that scenario different from mana draining a creep?

Why would you have hex level 4 at level 17? The 1 second extra is definitely more worth it than the stats.

@ rain9441 - if thats the scenario then impale + mana drain the one with stun....

most of the agi carries have nukes.... and has low hp... definitely nice targets for lion....

Dagon? Refresher Orb? Voodoo finished at level 17? Impale finished at level 9? No no no.

Your main task is to annoy the hell out of people with Impale at level 5, suck them dry of mana, rinse, and repeat until you reach level 6 and by then you should be able to Finger them and they'll die just from that. Keep in mind the base 25% spell reduction.

What you do is rush Scepter and get BoTs early for farming and lane control. Dagon and Refresher Orb is a no no for Lion.

Completely horrible item choice, and rediculusly no thought put into how much time it would take to farm into your build. Lion doesn't need a f***king dagon, He hits hard enough.

I can't understand the fact that the mods say they like updated strategies and post the ones of people that have abandoned their accounts a long time ago.Ok, you have to be fair and keep a priority list, but this guide will never be updated, and the creator won't answer people's comments.
Anyway, to the guide, nothing new or special, except from the skill build, which I disagree with. I believe that IF you get mana drain, a skill that I personally hate, you will need just 2 ranks of it.Continued

^
>>> A total 160 mana is the mana cost of 1 impale, and that's more than enough. That way, you will spend more points in the best disable in the game IMO after reverse polarity, hex.

Anyway, mana drain can drain enemy heroes mana too, by casting voodoo and drain its mana.

So when you do this, enemy will hate you because it will lose mana every time you face with it.

Agree with Folechno

adding that voodoo in is very unecessary.

Mana drain is indeed a very good skill.

Your item build arent very nice. Dagon is good. helps a lot in a pub. but instead of a late sceptre, change it to a guinsoo.

Cont'd

Mana drain is worth getting pass lvl 2

Its a pretty good guide still, 7/10

this is the same build i used in lion

mana drain is good in early game to harass the enemy with impale

10/10

I'm pretty sure refresher orb doesnt reset item cooldowns, so your impale dagon finger refresh impale dagon finger wont work

An alright guide. Very small, and as most people have said, not much information on how to do anything but get a kill with a point and click hero.

okay, early mana drain isn't too bad. I dont disagree with that. Harrassment is good. But that would be if you're up against more than 1 lane opponent. I usually just add impale first, and see who i'm laned up against. Why I disagree with mana drain early? Simple. You can't get a kill at level 6 against someone with full hp. SO anyway, dagon imo is rubbish. A huge delay to getting aghanims or another hex. Cont.

Oh yes, did I mention that mana drain can be used on heroes? Except you focus on voodoo instead of impale. Imagine a pudge nearly in on you trying to rot your life away. You hex him, and mana drain. This is proven to be EXTREMELY effective. Trust me, it works. However, like I said, lion's skill build is situational. Sad to say, I'm gonna have to criticize your item build really badly. Save money on the ring, get 2 bracers. Hp and stats are vital for lion. He is a hunter early-mid game

Dagon is a huge waste of time. You can kill almost anyone with the impale+attack+voodoo+finger combo. You don't need dagon. Dont forget your role as a support player late game either. Another hex is NOT situational, but extremely useful. You can take care of 3 heroes trying to defend their tower. 2 hexes, and a stun. Not to mention that impale hits multiple enemies. Aghanims is good, and quite okay. Not that it really increases finger's alot. I usually get a bloodstone. You stack up kills early

stack up kills early, and get better regen. Blood stone works so much better than aghanims imo. I wished you taught readers on how to use impale to it's maximum potential. It's mainly a farming skills and should be spammed. You shouldve shown it's aoe as well. Anyway, this is a fairly average guide. Your item build makes lion seem like some sort of mega farmer. Which he's sad to say, really not. Refresher isnt too bad, but it's awfully noobish

Yes, to sum it all up, I'd just want to add on afew stuff. This guide will convince newbies that lion is the "strongest" hero in the whole of DotA. When in actual fact, he's useless against anyone with spell invulnerability capabilities. You need to tell people how useless he is against omni knight etc. And most importantly, on how the game cannot go pass mid game if you want to play hero killer.

Oh yes, magical 1 second voodoo at level 5? erm. USELESS.

To the mods: I'm wondering how you post the various guides. This guide has no screenies, and no worst enemies list of the sort. Not to mention it's awfully short. I would really like to know how you post guides here on ds.

sorry for making so many posts, but this guide gets a 3.9999 from me.


@folechno:
I've no idea you've become such a pro! Awhile back you thought that stifling dagger had a mana requirement of a 100 or so.

Well, I wish I could say "At least you got mana drain", but I can't, because you decide to level voodoo early instead of Mana Drain. If you go that late w/out mana regen, there's no way you can afford the high Voodoo cost. Furthermore, you don't get the full 100 mana per second until level 10. On top of that, you recommend using impale a lot early. I see a lot of mana problems with this guide early on.

well, unlike most guides, you actually know how to play the hero, and also unlike most guides, you don't know how to write a guide. effective strategy ineffective guide.

try again with a little bit more information and explanation, as this is just more 'how i play lion' not 'heres how you can play lion'

i personally think dagon is a waste of gold....better rush soulbouster and raise health in order to survive and then get aganim early midgame where u will hurt most with an improved ulti!

good strat but i think the you are considering an ideal condition of playing(Dota also has twists and turns). Remember that you are playing w/ humans that can also think, not AIs. The items are too good to be true espicially on team battles.The game should have ended long before your maxed your vodoo(as you say you maxed at at lvl 22+). And the title"who needs regen anyways" does not suit w/ lion.

Errr . .

quite simple, . .

don't agree with Dagon at all, . .

sigh*

lacked info about killing strategies and team role, . .

bad . .

This:
"This guide will convince newbies that lion is the "strongest" hero in the whole of DotA. When in actual fact, he's useless against anyone with spell invulnerability capabilities."
Plus:
"You can kill almost anyone with the impale+attack+voodoo+finger combo."
...
Think about those two statements for a second, by the same person...

@ EagleM = Refresher works on items.

we already have 2 mediocre/prety crappy strats for lion. do we rly need this? instead we cud have many other strats, that r much more useful(yes im talkin about folechno's lina). also this user has like 3 forum posts, this wll end up like the cm and drow strats. rly bad. also drain helps, but its ur own choice, to drain or stats

we already have 2 mediocre/prety crappy strats for lion. do we rly need this? instead we cud have many other strats, that r much more useful(yes im talkin about folechno's lina). also this user has like 3 forum posts, this wll end up like the cm and drow strats. rly bad. also drain helps, but its ur own choice, to drain or stats

nice guide
good item build

i sucked at lion but i used your guide and i was pretty decent

9/10 good job

Seems to be kinda hot in here, but anyway, with regards to the skills, it really depends. Hexing early, u may not have mana to pull it off, but it really depends. Good against blinkers. Mana drain early, can help u against initiaters of chain stunners so it's really situational, no one is right nor wrong. Lol

wow,

how fascinating

i am omly 12 years old and i can be better

thx for the strategies,, i got monster kill yesterday!

@rllian I was confusing Mortred's dagger with Mercurials

@LocoRoco ty for your support

not much more to say, already wrote ~15 posts

GJ

Impale Max Asap
Level 2 Mana Drain asap
Ulti always asap
Hex after lvl 2 drain

this way you can heavily harass enemy heroes @ your lane.

And starting creepwave encounter with mana drain isn't a good idea. Imagine you have mirana as opponent or similar stuff you invite them to attack you. Impale first and instantly drain rnaged creep. The drain will start while the ranged is flying into the air and you are much saver that way.

Furthermore Aghanim isn't worth it on Lion take something else...

ok in connection with the strategy:
Very nice it could help those who are new with Lion although screenshots would make it perfect!

NOT in connection w/ the strategy:
Flask of Sapphie Water is now Healing Salve right? in version 6.54??

i recommend vanguard before aghanims, to add defense.. :)

@Shimrra_3:

Note that I said almost anyone. He is useless against bkb. But heroes without it, die. It's simple really.

@folechno:
the topic was on motred actually

I should point out Centaur and Treant and Pudge...

OK. Creator doesn't feel like defending himself in a reasonable manner, no updates, aaaaaaand see my previous post. 5/10.

ok la, 5/10

Mana drain is very powerful now adays because you drain alot faster now thus you don't require so much ime to channel. Ranged creeps even have their mana buffed to support the mana drain use.

@rllian yes I realize that, but for some reason I thought that Mortred's dagger cost ~100 mana like mercurial's dagger does

am actually rating as a 3 since the author was online but didn't do anything

so hard on him... but i think that dagon is quite useful since it is only around 3k gold and can probably get u some double kills,
i'd have to disagree with 1 lvl of voodoo early game though
i tried this out with 3v3 against some friends, i ended the game in less than 30 mins
note that they weren't that gd, but still, if 2 of them tried to gank me, i'll kill 1 and get away
also, the "stats" you get from dagon is kinda helpful (quotation since its very minimal) Cont

no refresher though, late game you r supporter and cannot stand against motred or other ppl, so if u haven't been farming that gd and its almost late game, go for guinsoo first instead of aghanims, then, after that, while supporting, get some kills with dagon and finger... its not that hard to get +10 kills with him by lvl 16

that's just my opinion and estimates, note that it may not be that accurate since i'm not 'pro'

good

Lol. Mana Drain + Impale spamming early PWNS. L2P noobs!!! (I'm jk, but it still pwns) Hex to 4 and Euli and Sheepstick for full disable =)

nice strat but i usually buy a vanguard for protection.

meh. not how i play or belive lion shud b played. each 2 their own i guess...

seriously. Are more inactive guides gonnag get posted? "Lion can be a very powerful hero from the beginning to end." sighs...

"and ridiculously dangerous ultimate (with dagon!)"

Backtrack really gives you a headache.

cool guide

lmao,,

max mana drain..
worst ever skill on dota..

hahahahahahaha......

i like vodoo more after stun hit hit then vodoo 4 second disable dude! thats an automatic kill u should level it up earlier amp!

@mirana0406:

Sadly, it's absolutely useless against heroes who don't depend on mana.

Why is it not a good idea to mana drain enemy heros? This is very effective vs Luna, Nerub, etc. Just stun THEN drain! Build looks good but I usually go guinsoos after dagon.

Those who max vodoo instead of mana drain early game lmfao back @ you. Its not always DPS that owns the game

@ folechno. Commenting is ok but if you wanna give a lecture then i suggest making your own lion guide ? Spamming unnecesary comments that i doubt he'll bother to take a look at is just a waste of space. Concider your actions before you take them. If you have a thousand and one opinions on the flaws of this guide make your own, get it approved and not get rating less then 10. If not i suggest you to keep your commenting short and summarized

@ rain9441. If mana drain is a useless skill then why is lion given this skill ? 20 mana per second for 4 seconds is 80 mana, while maxed is x5 more than lvl 1 rate. In team ganks its useless ? What more if you dont have enough mana to cast vodoo ? Supposing you say you should have enough mana supporting items, what if you dont ? If Axe was your opponent in a team fight, dont you think mana drain at that time would be perfect ? especialy against low mana heroes. I'm happy to debate anytime =)

@|Demented|Beat| fair enough, but I don't have time to make guides for all the heroes, I have a Lina guide that's about to be published and Troll and Krobelus guides in the making, if you want you can spam positive comments, in fact I want you to, since it will make the guide better

and I think that most of my comments are helpful and would make the guide better, and by commenting like that, it proves that I have actually read the guide (unlike those people who posted "wtf? no dagon FAIL")

well i guess ultimately it really depends how you play lion, like many other heroes, theres multiple ways to play lion, and of course some are better than others in certain situations

ive been playing lion a lot lately cos he is such a fun hero to use.

regardless of the situation, i always play lion as a disabler harrasser, not like a hunter as some people include here.

Continue...

so i always go for impale and stats, not voodoo or mana drain. the reason being is if i go for voodoo and impale, i dont have the mana pool to support it. and instead of getting mana drain, i get null talisman. this way i get extra stats with it, and against most heroes i can hold up regardless if they are int, agi, or str based.
and since i have a neat mana pool with decent health for early lion, i tend to spam my impale early to harrass. so if i lane with someone, they can finish the hero off

and after that i go for eulers because i then get a second stun that will work well, and gives me extra int.. now if i proceed with the game, i would end up with 3 stuns + lots of int. i prefer this than a low health hunter lion cos in a gank i can take out 2 heroes, and if a 3rd one has like a "dd", i can cyclone it so that my team can finish the stunned 2 heroes.

"Lion - who needs regen anyways?" Lol at manadrain. To be honest with you i stopped reading this guide after i saw the skill build so yeah. Go drum ur self in the head. Poop drummer

in my opinion the best of the 3 strategies for lion especially the item build!!

@ bloodystorm
You must be noob, the manadrain is good because you can keep the impale going all day long. All you who go impale then stats are idiots. The stats do not help with regeneration the way mana drain does, and if you're concerned about HP then just buy a bracer. NOOBS!

hmm i prefer guinsoo to aghanims so u have another disable which helps in support and running away and even turning the tide for a kill...... oh and just wondering why no vanguard?

hmm i prefer guinsoo to aghanims so u have another disable which helps in support and running away and even turning the tide for a kill...... oh and just wondering why no vanguard?

fucking sucked! you never even said a word about hex! that spell shall be be maxed after impale, and never more then lvl 3 mana drain, that spell is for nabs

[Basically it's 29 mana/sec if you use the cooldown (adjusted with mana cost).]

Can you please clear this out. I don't get it. Are making us stupid! You said its 100 mana per second. How come that figure above is given?

@ mavadors, battleboy123, bloodystorm = warning each. Learn how to comment without flaming. Also, all of you besides battle are completely wrong.

is 2 point booster and 1 energy booster can make a soul booster??

Well nice guide...8/10 but why not more level for dagon???

this is really a great srat its the way ive played him exzactly for ages but ppl have alwaysed hated the way i play him

@siobal47 soul booster is made up of a soul booster, a vitality booster, and a point booster, no duplicates

@[dk]yakuza upgrading dagon is usually not worth it, a lvl 5 Dagon costs more than a Divine Rapier, it's much better to get other items, also you are paying 1300 gold for an additional 100 dmg (and some negligible stats)

@4eVaDeAd all that matters is what works for you, even if you pwn people, they will still call you noobs if you don't follow their builds

ROfL ..... DuDe

Better get on wid Impale stats n 1 level of voodoo.

Til 6 tats the best way to go ...
N

DId sum 1 say mana drain Initially ?? Huh ? ! WAt D F*** !

for early game this build is nice but late its suck!! to much money to spent..
I suggest you to rush Guincoo its GG later on.... try it
7/10 4 this guide ^^ love lion

the unsung item is blood stone nobody uses it but ME believe me its really good..

You don`t need a Refresher... your cd is 50 sec no one can match whit you
In my last game my built was
1.BoT
2.Vanguard
3.Aghanim
4.Skydi
5.Hyper
6.Orchid

worst strategy...

boring....

lol@ finger them
it cracks me up

Hex is a very good spell, as it silences items as well as the hero. Like people have been saying, you should max it after impale. Go 1-3-5-7 impale. Mana drain is fine, but add something about earlygame impale+drain to harass their mana away.

Wait, am I misunderstanding something here? Heroes in hex form lose their inherent 25% resistance to magic, don't they? Meaning the 375 level 1 Finger of Death becomes the actual 500? Does nobody else realize how useful this would be against Anti-mage?

Or Am I just misunderstanding something >_>

Also, I'm just wondering if the people who say mana-drain = fail actually played that build before.

NIce

I like the last step IN COMBO...

DANCE DANCE DANCE...

nx man..alaska man..masarap..

according to you,he can easily kill enemy heroes with a combo,

then after having the items u needed, y don't you max up dagon from 1 to 5?

it may be of help to you in terms of mana and killing...
:-P

nice strategies you've got there but I like the strategies of never more!!?

need some screen shots and name some heroes deadly to this guy please!!

i got killed with finger lv 1. but my HP remaining was 4xx. so i think finger does not affect magic reduction.

i did have mana drain in the beginning but i never used it, actually never used it the whole game. i owned but i just forgot bout that skill it just seems useless. mana drain should be kicked out and replaced with a different skill.

Good strategy overall getting mana drain first is like infinite mana :P.

could u put a video?

Skill build: 1/10
Item build: 1/10

This guide sucks a lot, man.

Lion's power in early game is impale>mana drain>impale>mana drain, and so on. U just charass like this and then kill with finger.

Btw no need to get a dagon for lion. Best build for me is 2 Bracers > Boots of Travel > Aghanims > Orchid. That's all what lion needs.

I can put a video later... got like 10 videos with beyond godlike ;o

have you try necronomicon?

great strat.
One problem i had was BS' 6 second silence ( first skill ). Once he silences you you either got to run or fight. I got mad so i rushed a linken's sphere after my soul booster
Anyone also got an idea on how to counter silence?

I don't see whats so bad about mana drain. In early game you barely have any mana. And voodoo isn't required early game. Its more useful mid game once you start ganking. Theres no point going for a impale and voodoo build since so don't have ANY mana. Buying pots is a waste of money in my opinion

ok not bad

watever dudes.....i can kill him easily wit rezor....

you have to see my strategy . i think you are missing Eul's for completely ownt :)

omg you stun the hero then mana drian noob

fatiga91 your so mean...i like the guide.its not the worst ever,its just good but not great...

very nice, i like i like

very nice, i like i like

yea maybe afew screenshots wud b good
^^

ive been using this stategy eversince

OMG you get voodoo and impale first

Failed guide
2.5/10 for trying

Nice strategy, I've tried it and guess what... Lion is my favourite hero now :)

Can stop anyone and anywhere ;)

Havn't tried yet but it sounds like a good strategy...Screw what others say....Have them go make a better one if they have time to laugh at your guide....I like ill go try it and ill come back and say how it goes... Good Job

well done i tried once and might be lion from now on

MAKE SOME PICS ^.^

Why in hell do you take hex so late?

Mana Drain is better than Hex in my opinion... Hex sucks early

lol..... orchid malevolence dun nid buy la..

The only thing i like about this strat is your advice on the dancing...

U shud have null talisman instead of bracers

this is a great guide. :]
i tried the item build and harrass + creeping and i dominated the whole game.
thanks.^^

not bad but the build quite expensive

um, your item build tells us to buy a point booster,energy booster and ANOTHER point booster to make a soul booster...LOL it should be a vitality booster to finish off the soul booster!

nice

not really helpful lots of items you dont really need dagon sheepstick and scepter are pretty good its just myu opinion

who is the best character to stop lion...tnx..

I think you should add some section for hero killing and mana harassed some str spell caster dont have any mana left after impale-->mana drain timing this combo right you should get +0.5 sec from stunt since impale has some delay to make the prey stunt

wow so nice

yeah i get mana drain too.....but wat i do is diffirent.......i use impale to the enemy hero and then mana drain them while they are stuned.....you can have at least 4 sec. of mana drain and get 400 mana.....its better cuz it harrases and actually gain mana since impale has 170 mana cost........

Pls rep