Visage- Chill n' Go
Created by bobbob247 on 2009-09-17
Last modified: -
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Visage drains the life from a target, slowing its attack and move speed. He then gets bonuses equal to those drained.
Level 1 - 32% of attack speed and move speed drained to Visage. Lasts 3 seconds.
Level 2 - 32% of attack speed and move speed drained to Visage. Lasts 4 seconds.
Level 3 - 32% of attack speed and move speed drained to Visage. Lasts 5 seconds.
Level 4 - 32% of attack speed and move speed drained to Visage. Lasts 6 seconds.
• The buff on Visage and debuff on the target can be removed seperately with dispel.
• The speed gained is independant of the amount that was reduced on the target.
• Casting range: 600
Mana Cost: 70/80/90/100
Comment: All of Visage's skills are a bit complicated, so I will explain them more clearly. Grave Chill slows down a single enemy. It reduces that hero’s movespeed and attack speed by 32%. Then, you gain extra movespeed by the amount that the enemy was slowed. You will also gain 32% attack speed. This is basically a slow and a self buff.
Visage sends out a surge of agony towards an enemy unit, echoing the suffering that nearby heroes (foe or allied) have taken. For each 130 damage taken around him, his soul counter increases by one for up to 6 seconds.
Level 1 - 3 max soul charges.
Level 2 - 4 max soul charges.
Level 3 - 5 max soul charges.
Level 4 - 6 max soul charges.
• Soul counter increases by 1 for each 110 damage taken by heroes within 1200 AoE of Visage.
• The soul counter only increases for damage greater than 2, and less than 3000, only counts damage from a player unit or Roshan, and does not count self-inflicted damage nor damage dealt by Soul Assumption itself.
• Each amount of damage added to the soul counter expires after 6 seconds, or when Soul Assumption is cast.
• When cast, launches a projectile at the target hero that will deal 20+60*(charges on soul counter) when it hits, the projectile moves at 1000 speed.
• Damage type: magic
• Casting range: 900
Mana Cost: 200/180/160/140
Cooldown: 4 seconds
Comment: Soul Assumption heals Visage for 4/8/12/16 HP for every unit that dies in the area of effect (700 AoE). If an enemy denied the creep then you will not heal. Furthermore, for every unit that dies in the AoE of Soul Assumtion, you will gain 6 damage for 30 seconds. This will happen up until you reach the unit cap (2/4/6/16). The damage amounts don’t place a buff, so you will lose the +6 damage immediately after 30 seconds has elapsed (killing a creep every 29 seconds will not keep your damage at a really high amount.) Again, a creep that was denied by an enemy does not increase your damage. This spell also triggers off of allied creeps, and allied summons (like your Revenants). The maximum damage at level 7 is +96. This means that at times, it is worth about as much as Sacred Relic and a Demon Edge, or 6200 gold (ignore the fact that they make a Divine Rapier).
Visage surrounds himself with the magical energy of the dead, granting extra physical armor and magic damage resistance. However, the energy degenerates with every instance of damage taken and will require time to recover back to full strength. Has 4 layers.
Level 1 - Each layer provides 1 armor and 3% magic resistance. 10 second recovery time.
Level 2 - Each layer provides 2 armor and 6% magic resistance. 9 second recovery time.
Level 3 - Each layer provides 4 armor and 12% magic resistance. 8 second recovery time.
Level 4 - Each layer provides 5 armor and 16% magic resistance. 7 second recovery time.
• Each time the Necro'lic receives damage greater than 2 that was not self-inflicted and was from a player owned source, a layer is removed.
Mana Cost: N/A
Comment: It heals all allied units in the 800 AoE by 10/15/20/25% of the damage you take. It will not heal allies if the damage is over a really big number (basically it won’t heal allies if Visage gets killed with a Culling Blade from Axe. Gravekeeper’s Cloak uses pseudo-evasion (explained later).
Visage conjures up two blind Familiars from the realm of death. Familiars have high attack power but each attack, up to 6, drains their power and temporarily weakens them. Familiars can transform into stone, becoming invulnerable, stunning nearby enemy units upon landing and regenerating their health and attack power. Familiars give a large bounty (100 each) if killed.
Level 1 - Max 56 bonus damage, 300 HP, stun for 60 damage/1 second
Level 2 - Max 98 bonus damage, 450 HP, stun for 60 damage/1.25 seconds
Level 3 - Max 154 bonus damage, 600 HP, stun for 60 damage/1.5 seconds
• Currently existing Familiars are destroyed upon casting of Summon Familiars.
• Each Familiar starts with 7 charges of bonus damage, each charge gives 8/14/22 bonus damage. Familiars lose one charge each time they attack, and gain one charge every 15 seconds from when they were summoned.
• When a Familiar enters Stone Form, its damage charges are fully restored, and it gains 50/68.75/87.5 each second of Stone Form.
• When a Familiar enters Stone Form, it will stun in a 325 AoE (1 second delay from when Stone Form is cast), dealing 60/100/140 magic damage and stunning for 1/1.25/1.5 seconds.
• After Stone Form is cast, there is a 0.5 second delay before the Familiar becomes invulnerable, and a Familiar will automatically leave Stone Form after 8 seconds. Stone Form has a 30 second cooldown.
• Familiars have 96.25%/96.25%/96.25% magic resistance, and are targeted as heroes by abilities.
• Familiars have 160 attack range.
• Cast range: 900
Mana Cost: 150
Cooldown: 180/160/140 seconds
Comment: Raise Revenants summons a handy flying unit from a corpse. You can control these units, and are permanent (unless killed). They have some magic resistance, meaning they will take less damage from spells. They can be purged for damage.
Skill Build:1. Soul Assumption
2. Grave Chill
3. Soul Assumption
4. Grave Chill
5. Soul Assumption
6. Raise Revenants
7. Soul Assumption
8. Grave Chill
9. Grave Chill
10. Gravekeeper`s Cloak
11. Raise Revenants
12. Gravekeeper`s Cloak
13. Gravekeeper`s Cloak
14. Gravekeeper`s Cloak
16. Raise Revenants
Gauntlets of Ogre Strength + Circlet of Nobility + Bracer Recipe Scroll
Gauntlets of Ogre Strength + Circlet of Nobility + Bracer Recipe Scroll
5 All Attributes
Passive: Mekansm Aura
4 HP regeneration. 500 AoE
Heals 250 HP and gives +2 armor in 750 AoE. Armor bonus lasts 25 seconds. Doesn't affect units that have been healed by any Restore in the last 25 seconds. 150 manacost. 45 seconds cooldown.
Headdress of Rejuvenation + Netherezim Buckler + Mekansm Recipe Scroll
Power Treads (1400)
60 Movement Speed
30 Attack Speed
8 Selected Attribute
Active: Switch Attribute
Switches the attribute that receives a bonus. From Strength to Intelligence, Intelligence to Agility, and Agility to Strength.
Note: Can only carry one. Movement speed bonus doesn't stack with Boots of Travel, Phase Boots, Power Treads, or Boots of Speed.
Boots of Speed + Gloves of Haste + Boots of Elvenskin or Robe of the Magi or Belt of Giant Strength
Eye of Skadi (5675)
Passive: Cold Attack
- Causes attacks to slow the movement speed of the target by 30% and attack speed by 20%.
- Lasts 5 seconds
- Orb effect
- Buff placer
- Lasts 3 seconds
- Buff placer
2x Ultimate Orb + Point Booster + Orb of Venom
Can be replaced with a Desolator if desired
Passive: Burn Damage
Deals 45 damage per second. 650 AoE.
Note: Clicking Radiance will toggle Burn Damage on and off.
Sacred Relic + Radiance Recipe Scroll
A terrifying spirit created by uniting a thousand of souls of the warriors fell in the War of the Magi; Visage roams this world with never-ending thirst for souls. This restless ghost consumes the essence of the enemies he slays, and the death moan of his victims is what he enjoys the most. The weakening power of his wrath puts even the greatest warriors in misery, and the sight of sky filled with Visage and his undead minions is unimaginable. He is a nightmare in its worst, most sickening form, a true living horror, the Necro'lic.
17 + 1.75
Base HP regen
Base Mana regen
Role on team
Cast 2ndary animation
Pros and Cons
- Excellent farmer
- Excellent map control
- Can play many different roles on the team
- Aerial vision from Revenants
- Provides HP for the team when he takes damage
- Excellent laning ability
- Has one of the best movespeed increasing abilities in the game
- Can farm even when not alive
- Can counterpush while defending a different lane
- Has only one spell that must be manually casted
- Very item dependent (almost useless if unable to farm)
- Revenants give moderately high bounty (1/2 a creep to 1 creep’s worth)
- Gravekeeper's Cloak makes tanking a bit harder (people have no good reason to attack you)
- No disable or ministun
- Just one slow
- Rather fragile without items
- Is an INT hero, yet does not need much mana
- Far below average movespeed (285)
- Has to keep somewhat close attention to Revenants in order not to feed enemies
- Moderately slow projectile speed
Useful Information to know before playing Visage:
Basic Information about DotA:
Shadow walking is like orbwalking without an orb. Basically it involves moving immediately after your attack leaves your hero, to begin chasing after your target. This makes your hero (or unit) not sit around all day during his attack cooldown. It is useful for denying a creep in between waves, or harassing a hero. If this were executed completely perfectly, it would look exactly like and orb walk, just without the orb. Practice this if you want to get good with it. Each hero has it's own animation, and you will need to get used to each hero's animation. However, shadow walking is subject to the delay of the host, and you will have to adjust to the delay every game.
This skill requires practice with whatever hero you are shadow walking with. It is most effective with heroes who have a short attack animation (such as Mirana).
Warding (for scouting)
Although this guide is out of date, it covers how to use Revenants as scouts/wards. Read the Watcher section as well, you can use Revenants in a similar way to watchers if you are watching for ganks.
Outdated in # of Revenants (4/5/6, not 5/6/7), and sight range (600/400, not 1600/800) They are blind as... bats... during the night. (And they don't have SONAR)
Map awareness is how aware you are of what is going on in the map (such as if there are missing heroes, what the runes are and where they are, etc. (I’d say it is 90% watching the minimap). You need map awareness if you are going to use your Revenants as scouts. Map awareness is a basic skill that comes with game experience; just use logic to figure when you should back off from a lane, or when you should push one. Be aware of what is on your minimap, or else your Revenants are inefficient scouts for you (heroes will run by them and still gank you).
Helpful tips in laning
A player should seek to gain every edge he can get over his opponents during the laning stage, as it determines how well you will do for the rest of the game, and this guide provides very helpful hints about how to lane effectively. It goes more in-depth about laning than Ghost’s guide. Visage is best if the user has a pretty good idea of what last hitting and denying is, and is decent at it. An autoattacking Visage will not get as insanely farmed as he could be, yet it is not required.
Less Important: The Art of Not Farming
This is important for learning how to play Visage to maximum efficiency for your team. While you are a hero who can farm just about anywhere, you should be mindful of your team if you are not the carry hero. The carry hero should almost always have priority in farming a lane.
This build is pretty simple for all parts of the game. His skills are slightly complicated to understand from just the tooltip.
Grave Chill provides Visage with an escape as well as a chasing spell. It is both a buff to you and a debuff to your enemy. The 32% IAS reduction earlygame provides quite a reduction in attack speed. It also increases Visage's own attack speed by a noticeable amount earlygame (32%). However, the primary reason the Grave Chill is such an effective ability all game is its movespeed increase. The movespeed increase makes this skill provide both chasing and escaping capabilities. There are only a few heroes who can outrun Visage after Visage has used Grave Chill. This skill is most effective earlygame, but it's usefulness does not diminish much over the entire game. Therefore, it is taken after the better earlygame skill, Soul Assumption.
History: This skill has been almost unchanged since Visage was first introduced to DotA. The manacost was reduced at some point, to what it is now.
Soul Assumption provides almost all the regeneration you need, which is useful against minor harassment. It also provides damage, which can be used for last hitting and denying, or harassing. At level 7, Visage can have an average of 148 damage per attack with Soul Assumption, which is higher than any other hero's damage at that point, including Shadow Fiend. However, your damage will usually not get this high, because there are only 8 creeps in earlygame creep waves (4 per side), and there is a 30 second interval between creep waves (and the souls only last for 30 seconds). It is therefore gotten as early as possible, to be used while laning. The HP regeneration is not very useful lategame, but it is a great spell earlygame.
History: This skill used to be an orb effect that added 10/20/30/40 damage, and healed 10/20/30/40 damage to units killed by it, but when it was changed in 6.50, it became what it is today.
Gravekeeper's Cloak is one of the best tanking abilities in the game. This skill effectively provides a 25% reduction in damage, since it heals Visage as he takes damage. It provides a good defence against AoE nukes, as the team will only take 75% of the nuke's damage. However, it makes tanking a more difficult job, because smart enemies will not target Visage until more threatening heroes are dead. This skill is gotten after the better earlygame skill have been maxed, because Visage does not have enough of an effect on the enemy team to draw their attention until the other skills are maxed out.
This skill uses pseudo-evasion, meaning the game checks for the incoming damage, then heals for the % of the damage. This means that it will not affect you on the first attack you take, as you will be trying to heal past your max HP (not possible). However, it will still heal allies. See the DotAwiki article on Pseudo Evasion. (Or go to PlayDotA mechanics, since DAwiki is down)
History: Origninally a 28% damage reflection (Exactly like Spectre's Dispersion is now), this skill was nerfed to 20% damage reflection, then changed to be a 25% AoE heal (like it is now).
Raise Revenants is an all around good skill. At first look, this skill is not very good. However, this was the skill that made him so powerful and a top ban in competitive games. While this skill was nerfed to reduce the Revenant’s sight range (several times), the nerf was partially compensated by an increase in their earlygame damage.
Revenants deal piercing damage. This means that they deal 150% of their damage against creeps, but only 50% damage against heroes and only 35% damage against towers (heroes deal 50% damage against towers). Now, when last hitting a creep at level 7, with Soul Assumption and this skill, Visage can deal 388 damage. However, his damage against heroes can be much lower. Your damage ranges from an average of 132 damage with no damage from Soul Assumption to an average of 228 damage with the maximum number of souls (16). Revenants are highly vulnerable to area of effect spells. Two 300 damage area of effect spells at level 7 can kill all your Revenants.
Be aware of how much gold Visage's Revenants are worth. They are almost worth about half as much gold as a creep at the first level, although they only give about 1/5 of the experience. At maximum level, they are worth about as much as a creep. Do not feed many of them to enemy heroes, but do not be afraid to lose Revenants in a push, as they have a low manacost to replace them. It is acceptable to suicide low HP Revenants against creeps or a tower if there are no heroes around.
When playing Visage, you should use the Revenant's mobility (flying and 350 MS) to the greatest effect. Revenants cannot be blocked, so they don't have to worry about creeps slowing them down. Since they are flying, they also have aerial sight, meaning that you don't have to worry nearly as much about an enemy abusing the fog of war (juking). You can also gain ground on an enemy if they are in a forest by flying straight over trees, cutting the enemy off, because your enemies cannot fly over trees and cliffs. When fleeing, use cliffs and trees to run them from enemy heroes.
Revenants also make good scouts. You can use them to scout runes or check for incoming ganks. Having Visage's enemies kill a Revenant is just a small price to pay instead of having someone on your team ganked and killed. See Caspian’s guide (to warding). Also see
DotaWiki PlayDotA on Revenants. To scout a rune/ramp/whatever, you can shift queue to move to the point you want to scout (the rune/ramp) and then move to your hero. The Revenant will then fly to the spot, then return to your hero. (or have the Revenant stay there)
Maphack. Revenants used to have 1600 day vision and 1200 night vision, but lower starting damage, as well as summoning 5/6/7, not 4/5/6 (Think Nightstalker with Aghanims, with slightly less sight, but with 7 times the Nightstalker. This provided his team with, for most purposes, a maphack. About half the map was revealed day and night. It was nerfed to 1200/800 vision, then down to 600/400 vision, while recieving a buff to attack damage, and reducing the number of Revenants (4/5/6) (which is how it is now).
The skill build posted above is the one if you are doing well. You can get a few levels of Cloak for extra survivability if your lane is really that terrible. Ideally just get a lane swap.
The item build listed above is just an example of an item build. Visage's item build completely depends on how the game is going. It is best to adapt items for every single game. There are always items that are more helpful in one lineup than another.
Look at the item builds in the other section, and use one, if you do not want to make a custom item build.
Starting Item Builds
2x Circlet + 6x Tangos
This is a basic build that goes straight for bracers. This is good with a carry or tank build. It works with the support build if you are not going to make a Mekansm (or if you just like this build).
2x Circlet + 2x Ironwood Branch + 3x Tangos
This is a build that works well if you do not know what build you are going for. It is also a good build if the other team lacks good harassing heroes.
Ring of Regeneration + 3x Ironwood Branch + 3x Tangos
This build can quickly upgrade into a Headdress of Rejuvination for your Mekansm. The Bracers will come quickly after if they are needed.
There are other earlygame builds that are viable for Visage, but I find these to be the best two. Visage needs a generic boost all around to survive in the lane. You do not want to have to to back to base until you have a significant amount of gold.
Headdress of Rejuvination
This is a decent item in a dual lane, as it provides some stats for you, and basically a ring of regeneration for you and your lane partner (that's basically 700 gold for 2 rings). Get it if you are going to be in a dual lane.
Early Game Strategy
-Farm (Unless trying to babysit)
-Stop others from farming
During the very early game, you are an average hero in the lane. You aren't a scary hero who can keep an enemy from farming, but you are not useless either. Your Soul Assumption does not have a high enough damage cap to be effective. You have decent damage and good enough animation to last hit and deny more effectively than the average ranged hero, so take advantage of it.
Harassing a melee hero is pretty simple on Visage. You can keep attacking him until you see the enemy creeps coming to attack you (in which case you both will be taking similar amounts of damage). If the enemy hero is laning, don’t just right click the melee hero, move within approximately 500 units of the enemy before starting to harass. Shadow walking is helpful to get an extra attack or two off. Grave Chill is not a good harassing skill at low levels, although you can use it if you start trading hits. Visage is one of the best heroes to use against a melee lane. His only downside is his fragility. Make sure that you won’t die if you get nuked once or twice.
Harassing a ranged hero is not as simple, because a ranged hero can attack back. However, you can usually beat them in a straight fight. If the enemy has a lane partner or has nukes, you really want to be careful (and probably not harass). Just stick with one attack before retreating. Unlike harassing a melee hero, you don’t want to get within a 500 AoE. The reason is that you want often outrange your opponent, and you want him to have to move up (an possibly draw creep aggression. If the enemy does get an attack off, then it is probably fine, as you will regenerate more. If you can clearly defeat the enemy hero in a one vs the enemy lane, try to turn the harassment into the skirmish.
Establishing lane control:
It is important to try to establish lane control via continual harassment. You should aim to outfarm your opponents, as well as harassing them. Nukers are your biggest enemy early in the game, as Visage is quite fragile early on. Remember not to overharass (see InDe_eD’s micro guide). You need to make the most out of your lane, whether by harassing enemies out of the lane, or by last hitting and denying most of the creeps.
You will need to hope for a lane that does not have many nukes. Your worst enemies earlygame are gankers, nukes and long disables. If you are against two of them, you should probably call for help or a lane swap. Otherwise, you are likely to be able to handle them, however, be on your guard. Don't focus on killing heroes, farming and outleveling your opponents is far more important. Focus on getting to level 6 ASAP. Deny creeps when you are not last hitting.
In a dual lane:
With an ally in the lane, you can focus a bit more on harassing, since you can assume that your ally can help with the denying. Hopefully your ally has a disable, so he can help you if you need to get away. With your ally, if a hero is sitting around who is at moderately low HP, try to coordinate a kill or force the hero out of the lane.
The rules I use for laning with Visage are:
1. Free kill (because it is worth about 4-5 creeps) > Last hit > deny > harass, as you will usually decide on how you build Visage based on how well you farm. Also, a deny reduces the amount of experience that the enemy gains, making him spend more time later catching up/
2. Exception to last hit>deny is to deny the enemy carry of a creep, as it starves the enemy carry from gold and experience.
3. Do not get within 100 units of the melee creep line, unless the lane is free, or 400 units on the other side of the creep wave. You can't harass efficiently if you get walled by angry creeps.
4. Do not pass the creep line against disables, as you are asking to die.
5. Exceptions to this are to grab a free kill (1 or 2 hits), or ganking with an ally who is ready to back you up with his own disable(s).
6. Harass autoattacking melee heroes. Deny all the creeps that an autoattacker is attacking. This annoys them, (sometimes until they ragequit, in pubs).
If a player is getting annoyed and telling you to stop denying in a public game, then prioritize denying his creep over last hitting, in the hope that he will ragequit. (It often works.)
Level 6 is usually where ganking really begins. Depending on your opponent’s lane control, you will either keep your Revenants as farming, send a few out as scouts or use them all as scouts. Option one is ideal, because you will have extremely good last hitting and denying. However, it is not ideal if you get ganked and die. The second option is good if you have the lane partially under control, but are worried about ganks. The 3rd option is good if you cannot keep your Revenants alive in the lane, and you are plainly feeding gold to your opponent. It is usually better to switch lanes should that occur.
What to do:
Keep farming until at least level 9. Then, you can either start ganking with your team, farm neutrals, or continue farming the lane. You want to farm the lane if you have control over the lane, but you are better off ganking or farming neutrals, if you are not doing well in your lane. When killing the neutral creeps, use your Revenants to tank if you have mana, as they are easily replaceable.
If you start participating in ganks before level 9, you will be very ineffective, because your Grave Chill might not slow down your enemies enough. Avoid teamfights if you are planning to tank for your team or carry your team, because farming good items is more important earlygame. However, you should still be prepared if one occurs in your lane.
In an earlygame fight, keep your Revenants nearby, but not in the fight until almost all AoE spells have been used. Then, to fight properly, cast Grave Chill on a nearby hero (see the Chill n' go section below). You can then start attacking, usually the hero that you Chilled. If a hero is really close to dying, but your hero has to pull back (low HP or something), you can leave your Revenants attacking him (Revenants have 350 MS, faster than a hero with no boots) while you back off. Keep in mind the fact that your HP is really low, and you don't want to tank many nukes.
Grave Chill is a long lasting (10 second) 32% slow, meaning that it has some pretty good ganking and chasing potential. However, farming is usually worth more to you. You generally want to gank the enemy heroes in your lane to get yourself the farming that you would like (it's much easier if you don't have to worry about an enemy hero killing you). Ganking is pretty simple. (You only have one spell, after all...)
If you are going into a different lane, come from behind, with all your Revenants (or at least from the side). Try to move as close as possible to your enemy, while you have the element of suprise. Then cast Grave Chill. Your teammates should assist you in what ways they can (disable, buff, extra slow, whatever). This should at least force them back to the fountain, if not killing them
If you are the one in the lane, then the one ganking should have a disable of some sort, to allow you time to cast Grave Chill. Then chase, and hopefully kill or force your enemy out of the lane.
Naturally, if you are not the carry, and the carry is ganking, try to leave him the kill. He needs the gold more than you.
Dealing with ganks
Should you get ganked while farming, the most obvious thing to do is not to panic. Cast Grave Chill on the most threatening hero (usually the best chaser). Then run your hero away. Keep your Revenants attacking, if possible. If a hero stops to attack your Revenants, pull them back. The idea of the Revenants is just to either deal some damage back, or pull a hero or two off your hero. This, naturally, isn't foolproof, and the best way of dealing with ganks is to have a scout give you some early warning.
Should you die, this doesn’t mean you are useless for the respawn time. Keep using your Revenants to farm (back them off the enemies). If there is an enemy hero still in the lane, who can kill your Revenants easily, use the Revenants to farm neutrals (see the ‘Microing your Revenants’ section for screenshots/tips). Your Revenants can still last hit/deny. Farm gold while you are dead. While you are dead, don’t lose Revenants without good cause, because you can't replace them at the moment. Try to keep as many alive as possible for the moment.
Usually, you won't completely dominate your lane for whatever reason, either because your opponents have disables, or you get ganked. Therefore, a Radiance rush isn't going to work well, as you need to finish it extremely fast. I would only rush a radiance if the other team has few disables/gankers (also known as a classic pub team), because buying the relic makes you into a glass cannon. As in, barely able to withstand nukes.
Usually, you should just grab a Mekansm, boots, and finish off a pair of bracers. A rushed Skadi is not bad either, it depends on personal preference (or if you have another hero who is better with the mek, like meepo).
While you don't have too many spells, you should never let your mana go below what is needed for a Grave Chill. If I can keep the Revenants alive in the lane, I will usually have it on autocast (I will lose Revenants because of attacking a tower, or deny them before the hero can kill them) and turn it off if I'm running low on mana. As a general rule, if you have less than 140 mana, you should consider taking a trip back to the fountain, or avoid fighting other heroes while you gain more mana back (farm neutrals/rune scout/change lanes). Unless you can account for most of the other team in a different lane, you might consider making the fountain trip.